What are the Holidays here without a political discussion (fight)?

Vulchor

Sorry, I know alot didnt want to see it----and I myself may regret brigning it up.....but it is the Holiday season, and in the spirit of the board here, what better way to celebrate that with a political b!tchfest...I mean discussion.

Im waiting for the Fox Newsies and right winged dingbats I to start spouting off again how its the Dems (and especially Obama) fault they cant pass this Payroll extension, even though it passed overwhelmingly in the Senate with Republican support. So I am left to assume this is again the same tired diatribe of stading your ground, morals, oil pipelines....what is the reason this time that the left----and only the left-----is to be blamed?

Granted my opinion is obviously bias here, but I know may responses, and all of what I hear on cable news, will be skewed the other way.......but I am really trying to put my head around how the Dems are the ones to blame on this one. Unless of course we just have to agree that all forms of compromise are now over.

deejmemixx

watch another channel and it will be the rights fault. Simple answer, dont watch a tv channel and go read the actual reports from the house and senate.

Vulchor

Have read some----not all-----and what I get is a yea or nay vote on a piece of legislation. I know whaere my feelings lie based on that legislation....so Im not sure what the comment was about. Im not trying to be a d!ck or anything, but I think to state how important perception is in politics would be an insult to anyone who knows the game.

kuzi16

im not sure its anybodys "fault"

its a discussion over how long the cut should last.

its always "the other guys fault" in politics.

instead of arguing over "whos fault it is", why not discuss the plans that each side have?


while you are busy tryong to wrap your head around how its the dems fault ill be busy trying to figure out how a two month tax cut adds any certainty to the fragile jobs market.
maybe between the two of us we can figure out wtf is going on.

jj20030

dont worry they are getting it rolling , http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/19/obama-campaign-strategist-axelrod-charges-republicans-with-screwing-up-economy/

jasonusa1

kuzi16:

ill be busy trying to figure out how a two month tax cut adds any certainty to the fragile jobs market.

Without going in depth, short answer is it does not. I see it's purpose being one of two things:

1. It's a band-aid. Nothing more, nothing less; or
2. It is being pushed hard right now as we are ramping up for the next elections to be used as a significant pice of leverage for either party against the other.

beatnic

Vulchor:

Sorry, I know alot didnt want to see it----and I myself may regret brigning it up.....but it is the Holiday season, and in the spirit of the board here, what better way to celebrate that with a political b!tchfest...I mean discussion.

Im waiting for the Fox Newsies and right winged dingbats I to start spouting off again how its the Dems (and especially Obama) fault they cant pass this Payroll extension, even though it passed overwhelmingly in the Senate with Republican support. So I am left to assume this is again the same tired diatribe of stading your ground, morals, oil pipelines....what is the reason this time that the left----and only the left-----is to be blamed?

Granted my opinion is obviously bias here, but I know may responses, and all of what I hear on cable news, will be skewed the other way.......but I am really trying to put my head around how the Dems are the ones to blame on this one. Unless of course we just have to agree that all forms of compromise are now over.

A 2 month fix? Obama wanted this to get solved by the end of the year, but he and the Senate left for vacation. Just saying. NO, I'm not going to blame the Democrats for this one. This one lands squarely at the feet of the Obamessiah.

Vulchor

That you Beat...I expected nothing less, or more;)

There is always a side argument. If it doesnt get done, Obamas fault. If it onoy gets done for two month---its just stop gap to look good, Obamas fault. There is no appeasing either side here. The budget itself was a stop gap to avoid govt shut-down (which is a lie cause it really doesnt shut down, but thats neither here nor there) but something was done. Doing nothing is terrible, doing this is too little. But somehow its expected that a congress and president who cant get ANYTHING done, should now be charged with not enough compromise instead of AT LEAST starting somewhere. And yes I know...it is Obamas fault and he is one who ont compromise. A little for the anti-christ Pelosi too Im sure

Kuz, I dont believe this creates a job at all or does anything to that issue. However why you and I beleive (or at least I assume) jobs arent being created are for different reasons. Mine is not a PhD in economics theory, mine is simple skepticism and common sense. If you used to employ 10 people to do a job, and you HAD to downsize to 8 because of money I totally agree. However, when the money starts rolling back in and you realize you can continue to work those 8 harder that they should have to because youre making a greater profit-------and other businesses are doing the same, so the worker always has the fear of losing their job (which then means insurance, house, feeding the kids, ect)------then you dont create any new jobs do you? Im sure Ill get plenty about US Tax rates and that were are not competitive on a global scale, and while maybe that is true----save paying out workers 2 bucks an hour with no safety standards, I dont think the maufacturing or anything else is coming back any time soon----no matter the tax rate.

Vulchor

Also, as far as discussing each sides plan Kuz----I think we could discuss that until we are "blue in the face" (Im full of the liners today) and it wouldnt make a difference. People, myself included, know each side's ideas. We know their reasons, their idealogy, their funders, their backers, points, their disagreements----and I, along with many others, just dont give a $h!t anymore. Both sides are afraid to do anything, and for the power and influence (and in turn money) they get for having their positions its a lot easier to do nothing than it is to do something. I am digusted quite a bit lately at the idea of a representative democracy, because to me that means respresenting the majorities opinion---but not at the cost of the minority totally. In short, compromise. A fragrence that no one seems to be wearing these days. Well, the Senate did yesterday for one vote anyway.

beatnic

You're welcome, Vulch
Blue in the face? I agree.

Teege

deejmemixx

i for one think the whole lot of them are asshat @!#$@#$! that need to grow the FK up. I consider myself a conservative with some liberal social views. But as of lately I am just a pissed off american that wants all the he said she said bullsh!t to end and get to work.

and Obama is the biggest war starter since SoDam Insane. He is full of ***, he is the reason there is class war fair now, he is the reason there is nothing being accomplished besides his POS healthcare plan. He is the Commander and Chief and he can make everything finish...he CHOOSES not to. He needs to stand up and be the president and stop his 365 days of campaign. phew..... /endrant

jasonusa1

Vulchor:

That you Beat...I expected nothing less, or more;)

There is always a side argument. If it doesnt get done, Obamas fault. If it onoy gets done for two month---its just stop gap to look good, Obamas fault. There is no appeasing either side here. The budget itself was a stop gap to avoid govt shut-down (which is a lie cause it really doesnt shut down, but thats neither here nor there) but something was done. Doing nothing is terrible, doing this is too little. But somehow its expected that a congress and president who cant get ANYTHING done, should now be charged with not enough compromise instead of AT LEAST starting somewhere. And yes I know...it is Obamas fault and he is one who ont compromise. A little for the anti-christ Pelosi too Im sure

Kuz, I dont believe this creates a job at all or does anything to that issue. However why you and I beleive (or at least I assume) jobs arent being created are for different reasons. Mine is not a PhD in economics theory, mine is simple skepticism and common sense. If you used to employ 10 people to do a job, and you HAD to downsize to 8 because of money I totally agree. However, when the money starts rolling back in and you realize you can continue to work those 8 harder that they should have to because youre making a greater profit-------and other businesses are doing the same, so the worker always has the fear of losing their job (which then means insurance, house, feeding the kids, ect)------then you dont create any new jobs do you? Im sure Ill get plenty about US Tax rates and that were are not competitive on a global scale, and while maybe that is true----save paying out workers 2 bucks an hour with no safety standards, I dont think the maufacturing or anything else is coming back any time soon----no matter the tax rate.

So are you saying that the fault of this etc does not land at Obama's feet?

deejmemixx

jasonusa1:

Vulchor:

That you Beat...I expected nothing less, or more;)

There is always a side argument. If it doesnt get done, Obamas fault. If it onoy gets done for two month---its just stop gap to look good, Obamas fault. There is no appeasing either side here. The budget itself was a stop gap to avoid govt shut-down (which is a lie cause it really doesnt shut down, but thats neither here nor there) but something was done. Doing nothing is terrible, doing this is too little. But somehow its expected that a congress and president who cant get ANYTHING done, should now be charged with not enough compromise instead of AT LEAST starting somewhere. And yes I know...it is Obamas fault and he is one who ont compromise. A little for the anti-christ Pelosi too Im sure

Kuz, I dont believe this creates a job at all or does anything to that issue. However why you and I beleive (or at least I assume) jobs arent being created are for different reasons. Mine is not a PhD in economics theory, mine is simple skepticism and common sense. If you used to employ 10 people to do a job, and you HAD to downsize to 8 because of money I totally agree. However, when the money starts rolling back in and you realize you can continue to work those 8 harder that they should have to because youre making a greater profit-------and other businesses are doing the same, so the worker always has the fear of losing their job (which then means insurance, house, feeding the kids, ect)------then you dont create any new jobs do you? Im sure Ill get plenty about US Tax rates and that were are not competitive on a global scale, and while maybe that is true----save paying out workers 2 bucks an hour with no safety standards, I dont think the maufacturing or anything else is coming back any time soon----no matter the tax rate.

So are you saying that the fault of this etc does not land at Obama's feet?

as the president...everything falls at his feet.

jasonusa1

deejmemixx:

jasonusa1:

Vulchor:

That you Beat...I expected nothing less, or more;)

There is always a side argument. If it doesnt get done, Obamas fault. If it onoy gets done for two month---its just stop gap to look good, Obamas fault. There is no appeasing either side here. The budget itself was a stop gap to avoid govt shut-down (which is a lie cause it really doesnt shut down, but thats neither here nor there) but something was done. Doing nothing is terrible, doing this is too little. But somehow its expected that a congress and president who cant get ANYTHING done, should now be charged with not enough compromise instead of AT LEAST starting somewhere. And yes I know...it is Obamas fault and he is one who ont compromise. A little for the anti-christ Pelosi too Im sure

Kuz, I dont believe this creates a job at all or does anything to that issue. However why you and I beleive (or at least I assume) jobs arent being created are for different reasons. Mine is not a PhD in economics theory, mine is simple skepticism and common sense. If you used to employ 10 people to do a job, and you HAD to downsize to 8 because of money I totally agree. However, when the money starts rolling back in and you realize you can continue to work those 8 harder that they should have to because youre making a greater profit-------and other businesses are doing the same, so the worker always has the fear of losing their job (which then means insurance, house, feeding the kids, ect)------then you dont create any new jobs do you? Im sure Ill get plenty about US Tax rates and that were are not competitive on a global scale, and while maybe that is true----save paying out workers 2 bucks an hour with no safety standards, I dont think the maufacturing or anything else is coming back any time soon----no matter the tax rate.

So are you saying that the fault of this etc does not land at Obama's feet?

as the president...everything falls at his feet.

That's a given. Republican, Democrat.. it doesn't matter. Political affiliation aside it is his job to pull each side together and do what is best for the country and its citizens. I'm also not trying to be a d1ck, but one reason I particulary dislike 'political debates' like this is that they seem to begin, and continue, from an entirely biased position from one side or the other. Rather than discussing what could/should be done to better serve the people, these always seem to be a blame game. Would you be saying the same thing if Bush was in office making the same decisions? Or better yet, I'd be willing to bet you don't care for Lloyd Blankfein or Jaime Dimon either?

deejmemixx

jasonusa1:

deejmemixx:

jasonusa1:

Vulchor:

That you Beat...I expected nothing less, or more;)

There is always a side argument. If it doesnt get done, Obamas fault. If it onoy gets done for two month---its just stop gap to look good, Obamas fault. There is no appeasing either side here. The budget itself was a stop gap to avoid govt shut-down (which is a lie cause it really doesnt shut down, but thats neither here nor there) but something was done. Doing nothing is terrible, doing this is too little. But somehow its expected that a congress and president who cant get ANYTHING done, should now be charged with not enough compromise instead of AT LEAST starting somewhere. And yes I know...it is Obamas fault and he is one who ont compromise. A little for the anti-christ Pelosi too Im sure

Kuz, I dont believe this creates a job at all or does anything to that issue. However why you and I beleive (or at least I assume) jobs arent being created are for different reasons. Mine is not a PhD in economics theory, mine is simple skepticism and common sense. If you used to employ 10 people to do a job, and you HAD to downsize to 8 because of money I totally agree. However, when the money starts rolling back in and you realize you can continue to work those 8 harder that they should have to because youre making a greater profit-------and other businesses are doing the same, so the worker always has the fear of losing their job (which then means insurance, house, feeding the kids, ect)------then you dont create any new jobs do you? Im sure Ill get plenty about US Tax rates and that were are not competitive on a global scale, and while maybe that is true----save paying out workers 2 bucks an hour with no safety standards, I dont think the maufacturing or anything else is coming back any time soon----no matter the tax rate.

So are you saying that the fault of this etc does not land at Obama's feet?

as the president...everything falls at his feet.

That's a given. Republican, Democrat.. it doesn't matter. Political affiliation aside it is his job to pull each side together and do what is best for the country and its citizens. I'm also not trying to be a d1ck, but one reason I particulary dislike 'political debates' like this is that they seem to begin, and continue, from an entirely biased position from one side or the other. Rather than discussing what could/should be done to better serve the people, these always seem to be a blame game. Would you be saying the same thing if Bush was in office making the same decisions? Or better yet, I'd be willing to bet you don't care for Lloyd Blankfein or Jaime Dimon either?

Bush sucks as well, but he didnt play the blame game, he was a man. I dont care who is in office as long as they act like a president. Obama is neither.

jj20030

Teege:

syrians miss him,lol http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/missing-bush_613588.html

JDH

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204791104577110573867064702.html

The Wall St. Journal, probably the most respected conservative newspaper in the US, squarely blames the House of Representatives, and the Republicans in Congress for "The GOP's Payroll Tax Fiasco"...

"GOP Senate leader Mitch McConnell famously said a year ago that his main task in the 112th Congress was to make sure that President Obama would not be re-elected. Given how he and House Speaker John Boehner have handled the payroll tax debate, we wonder if they might end up re-electing the President before the 2012 campaign even begins in earnest.

The GOP leaders have somehow managed the remarkable feat of being blamed for opposing a one-year extension of a tax holiday that they are surely going to pass. This is no easy double play.

Republicans have also achieved the small miracle of letting Mr. Obama position himself as an election-year tax cutter, although he's spent most of his Presidency promoting tax increases and he would hit the economy with one of the largest tax increases ever in 2013. This should be impossible."

beatnic

"Defaulting on our obligations is a reckless and irresponsible outcome to this debate. And Republican leaders say that they agree we must avoid default. But the new approach that Speaker Boehner unveiled today, which would temporarily extend the debt ceiling in exchange for spending cuts, would force us to once again face the threat of default just six months from now. In other words, it doesn’t solve the problem.” Barak Obama July 2011
Now, he just wants 2 months? Splain that to me.

Teege

beatnic:

"Defaulting on our obligations is a reckless and irresponsible outcome to this debate. And Republican leaders say that they agree we must avoid default. But the new approach that Speaker Boehner unveiled today, which would temporarily extend the debt ceiling in exchange for spending cuts, would force us to once again face the threat of default just six months from now. In other words, it doesn’t solve the problem.” Barak Obama July 2011
Now, he just wants 2 months? Splain that to me.

ooh ooh me me me I know...... This is how you explain it......

wwestern

Doesn't matter really.... this will result as does everything else the government does. Higher debt, your money becomes worth less, you will still not own anything that government can't take, and your "rights" will still be whatever they tell you they are.

Best to just sit down and stfu before you're labeled a terrorist and indefinetly detained without a trial.... best case scenario at that point is torture with no rape.

beatnic

wwestern:

Doesn't matter really.... this will result as does everything else the government does. Higher debt, your money becomes worth less, you will still not own anything that government can't take, and your "rights" will still be whatever they tell you they are.

Best to just sit down and stfu before you're labeled a terrorist and indefinetly detained without a trial.... best case scenario at that point is torture with no rape.

I'm not going down that easy, Wes.

Vulchor

Mr. Western----as often is the case...you have summed it up quite well

With regards to a few other points.....No I do not place the blame solely on Obama. Saying he could do everything and everything falls at his feet seems rather short sided and too broad a statement. Of course he would ideally "pull all together" as you say, but I think to place everything is wrong with him would be quite wrong.

If I used logic like that, it could make alot of things I dont like easier. Bush could be blamed solely for the Iraq War we were in for years. Reagan wouldve been held accountable for Iran Contra. Hell, Lincoln would be the reason the Civil War couldnt have been prevented too by this logic, no? Sorry I just dont buy it...not for the Pres, not for any one person.

Its that kind of all emcompassing accountability that led to Ricky Gervais' great bit saying that since Jesus does EVERYTHING and is all powerful, he must also be the one giving AIDS to babies.------We know that isnt true, becuase we know god isnt true (or which side of that debate you want to believe). So I think we should also know Obama cant be blamed for everything everyone is upset about, thats not a president...its a scapegoat.

wwestern

American politics has become alot like wrestling, sure they like to do lots of yelling and bullshit, but at the end of the day they're behind closed doors high fiving each other and chuckling about how much the rubes ate it up.

I say Vince McMahon for president, then we could just turn this *** into pay per view and maybe ease up on some of these over burdening taxes. Maybe Triple H as sec. state.... he could run around doing the little X at the crotch thing he does "SUCK IT AHKMADENAJAD!" Speaker of the house.... no brainer here.... The Rock. Maybe a revenge match between Palin and that lady who got shot.

kuzi16

Vulchor:

Also, as far as discussing each sides plan Kuz----I think we could discuss that until we are "blue in the face" (Im full of the liners today) and it wouldnt make a difference. People, myself included, know each side's ideas. We know their reasons, their idealogy, their funders, their backers, points, their disagreements----and I, along with many others, just dont give a $h!t anymore. Both sides are afraid to do anything, and for the power and influence (and in turn money) they get for having their positions its a lot easier to do nothing than it is to do something. I am digusted quite a bit lately at the idea of a representative democracy, because to me that means respresenting the majorities opinion---but not at the cost of the minority totally. In short, compromise. A fragrence that no one seems to be wearing these days. Well, the Senate did yesterday for one vote anyway.

you did clearly identify the problem with a representative democracy. that is what we have become. we need to get to a representative republic. that does take care of the individual, and the minority. it is a rule of law then, not a rule of men.

beatnic

"Frankly, given where the parties are, there's not a big difference between our positions," House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said a press event this morning. "It all comes down to the paid for, it's the budgetary impact of the extension of this tax holiday."

"I saw the president out yesterday doing his Christmas shopping. I saw he brought his dog with him. You know, we're here. He could bring his dog up here. We are pet friendly. You know, again, it will not take a long time," Cantor said. "We could probably resolve the differences within an hour."

Today, Speaker Boehner called President Obama to discuss the Speaker’s desire to provide a full year of tax relief for American families before December 31st. With Senator Reid having declined to call his Members back to Washington this week to join the House in negotiating a full-year extension of the payroll tax cut, the Speaker proposed that the President send members of his economic policy team up to Congress to find a way to accommodate the President’s full-year request. The Speaker reiterated that if their shared goal is a one-year bill, there is no reason an agreement cannot be reached before year’s end. The President declined the Speaker’s offer.

just following up. He never wanted a deal. He only wants an image.

Amos Umwhat

Maybe better PR? "Tax Breaks, they're not just for billionaires anymore!"

Seriously, though, another bandaid isn't going to help.

wwestern

beatnic:

"Frankly, given where the parties are, there's not a big difference between our positions," House Majority Leader Eric Cantor said a press event this morning. "It all comes down to the paid for, it's the budgetary impact of the extension of this tax holiday."

"I saw the president out yesterday doing his Christmas shopping. I saw he brought his dog with him. You know, we're here. He could bring his dog up here. We are pet friendly. You know, again, it will not take a long time," Cantor said. "We could probably resolve the differences within an hour."

Today, Speaker Boehner called President Obama to discuss the Speaker’s desire to provide a full year of tax relief for American families before December 31st. With Senator Reid having declined to call his Members back to Washington this week to join the House in negotiating a full-year extension of the payroll tax cut, the Speaker proposed that the President send members of his economic policy team up to Congress to find a way to accommodate the President’s full-year request. The Speaker reiterated that if their shared goal is a one-year bill, there is no reason an agreement cannot be reached before year’s end. The President declined the Speaker’s offer.

just following up. He never wanted a deal. He only wants an image.

Don't fall for the bullshit beat... They are doing the exact same thing you're accusing Obama of doing. These so called conservatives don't care about spending they only want to stifle social spending and do their own version of demagoging. If the bill was for trillions of dollars in unfunded bombing brown people they would've passed it. It's all a charade.

cabinetmaker

Term limits on congress would go a long way toward fixing most of what's wrong with our current political situation. Throw them all out and let's start over.

jj20030

wwestern:

American politics has become alot like wrestling, sure they like to do lots of yelling and bullshit, but at the end of the day they're behind closed doors high fiving each other and chuckling about how much the rubes ate it up.

I say Vince McMahon for president, then we could just turn this *** into pay per view and maybe ease up on some of these over burdening taxes. Maybe Triple H as sec. state.... he could run around doing the little X at the crotch thing he does "SUCK IT AHKMADENAJAD!" Speaker of the house.... no brainer here.... The Rock. Maybe a revenge match between Palin and that lady who got shot.

exactly how i think it is, except not behind close doors, ill bet they high 5 each other at the bars everynight dranking and shooting the bs strategies for the next round of screw the american people while making sure all themselves get raises. i still dont belive it makes one shiaat who becomes president there is a group of men/people somewhere behind the curtain pulling the strings paying the lobbyist/ special intrest groups to further an agenda a chip at a time till one day everybody will say, " WHAT THE HELL HAPPEN ? "

Amos Umwhat

jj20030:

i still dont belive it makes one shiaat who becomes president there is a group of men/people somewhere behind the curtain pulling the strings paying the lobbyist/ special intrest groups to further an agenda a chip at a time till one day everybody will say, " WHAT THE HELL HAPPEN ? "

bingo!