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what do you think of this?.....(cuban cigars)

sol1821sol1821 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 706
Waylander:
Some are okay (very few).
But Cuban leaf, has the most nicotine, so smokes better than any other.
Waylander:cool:
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Comments

  • sol1821sol1821 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 706
    PS, sorry ive not been around much the last few months
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    I have never smoked a Cuban cigar that had comparable nicotine strength to a lot of the Dominican and Nicaraguan cigars out there. Most are significantly milder than much of what is available in the Non-Cuban market. While I love Cuban tobacco, I wouldn't say it is the "best", only that it is just as fantastic as Honduran, Ecuadoran, Nicaraguan, or Dominican tobacco, etc.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,349
    I have yet to be blown out of the water on CC. I've had only a handful but I've tried to try the more talked about ones. Maybe there's something wrong with me but I have yet to see what all the fuss is about, or maybe it is all hype.
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    Age, duds, fakes, poor examples, there are a lot of factors that could explain your negative experiences with them.
  • HippiebrianHippiebrian Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 146
    I like a full flavored and bodied 'gar. The CC's just don't deliver the whack I look for in a cigar. They are tasty, but medium bodied/flavored at best. Not worth the cash or the chance of confiscation for me. But to each his or her own, I suppose...
  • DiamondogDiamondog Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,169
    Hippiebrian:
    I like a full flavored and bodied 'gar. The CC's just don't deliver the whack I look for in a cigar. They are tasty, but medium bodied/flavored at best. Not worth the cash or the chance of confiscation for me. But to each his or her own, I suppose...
    Cuban cigars are not meant to deliver a "whack" Cuban cigars are all about balance and flavour...
  • j0z3rj0z3r Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 9,403
    Diamondog:
    Hippiebrian:
    I like a full flavored and bodied 'gar. The CC's just don't deliver the whack I look for in a cigar. They are tasty, but medium bodied/flavored at best. Not worth the cash or the chance of confiscation for me. But to each his or her own, I suppose...
    Cuban cigars are not meant to deliver a "whack" Cuban cigars are all about balance and flavour...
    I think that keys in on a major failing of the non-cuban cigar industry...so much is put into making the biggest, baddest cigar with the most ligero...I enjoy a strong cigar as much as the next guy, but when strength is heralded above flavor and balance, well it seems like we forget what cigars are all about at that point. Then again, maybe that is just my opinion, I consider myself an enthusiast of cigars, and to me flavor and balance are key above all else. As with most things in life, to each his own.
  • Gurkha Man!Gurkha Man! Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 232
    I've never had a Cuban cigar I want to try one ofcourse so is it all just hype?
  • acsamples79acsamples79 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 66
    i dont really feel CC's are all hype... i do believe as a whole they are hyped very much. but ive had some sticks that are unbelievably fantastic. just like Non cubans, there are some sticks that arent the great. ive had a good number of CC's and i would rank some lower than non cubans, on the same token, i believe some are better. ive got some R&J dukes 09' that i would prefer to smoke over any non cuban ive ever had including opus, GoF, etc. ive got some Behikes on the way that im looking forward to finding out if theyre all hype or theyre legit.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 9,403
    Gurkha Man!:
    I've never had a Cuban cigar I want to try one ofcourse so is it all just hype?
    Yes and no. Some Cuban cigars are legitimately good, some are ok and some are not good...kind of like the NC market. There is a certain mystique due to the embargo in the US, and that seems to have a lot to do with how Cuban cigars are perceived by the average cigar smoker, a forbidden fruit scenario. At the end of the day, a cigar is just a cigar until it proves otherwise.
  • bandyt09bandyt09 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,762
    j0z3r:
    At the end of the day, a cigar is just a cigar until it proves otherwise.

    This

  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,023
    The Cubans make good and bad cigars. Having Castro's boys control everything doesn't help as they do not seem to be very good at anything
  • jsnakejsnake Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,037
    I have smoked a few and do not know which ones and do not know the brands well. I have only enjoyed 1 and the others were all duds. Just did not like the flavor and they sucked compared to non Cubans. I decided to explore these a little more though and am hoping to score some Behikes and try to keep better track of what I like.
  • Alex SvensonAlex Svenson BlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered Users Posts: 1,204
    sol1821:
    Waylander:
    Some are okay (very few).
    But Cuban leaf, has the most nicotine, so smokes better than any other.
    Waylander:cool:
    People know how I feel about Cuban cigars. There is no romance and no blending anymore of any kind, not since the real makers left the island. That said, it is merely my opinion. On the scientific side I can tell you that more nicotine does not make a better cigar. This is a great topic so I will try to expand on how all this works from the agronomical, fermentation and blending standpoints.

    The nicotine levels in a leaf of tobacco are dictated foremost by the position of the leaf on the plant (lowest nicotine levels on lower leaves to higher levels as you get to the top) which is also directly relational to the number of sun hours and the nutrients which are delivered to the leaves through the root system, specifically nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus and calcium and to a lesser extent magnesium. (the reason the top leaves get more nutrients is because they stay on the plant longer after lower leaves have already been picked delivering more nutrients to fewer leaves in addition to the fact that they get more sun exposure). In terms of soil and direct sunlight hours, Copan (in Honduras) and Esteli (in Nicaragua) tend to be optimal based on soil analysis which I have studied quite a bit.

    After leaves are picked, they are cured at which time there is cellular activity that dies by the end of the process as proteins are broken down into simple sugars and the the leaf turns from green to brown. This takes about 40 to 60 days.

    After curing the tobacco needs to ferment for 12 to 18 months. During fermentation there are physical, biological and chemical changes taking place (that omit an ammonia like smell if you have smelled cigars not fully fermented). Biologically bacteria is building in the pilone promoting the actual process and breakdown of organic material, physically the leaf is taking on an even color, thinning and darkening and chemically there is a reduction in nitrogenous matter (proteins) and certain Carbohydrates like starch which actually reduce what are considered irritant substances. It is the chemical changes that impact nicotine. These chemical changes reduce nicotine levels and quite intentionally as improves flavor and the aromatic qualities of the leaf. That is why while Ligero may be all the rage in NC cigars, the focus is on long fermentation times which many of these brands advertise heavily as it is this process that improves the flavor and keeps the richness while dialing down nicotine levels so you can actually enjoy the cigar without the irritant or overly tannic tones to it.

    Why is this important and how does it pertain to the original statement? Cuba as it is today and its cigar industry are government controlled and very poorly financed. It is common knowledge among people in the cigar industry that they do not really actually ferment their tobaccos and if they do, it is not done fully. They have a more abbreviated process that can mean fermentation actually starts in the barn right after curing or can mean it is not fermented at all. (I have found the limited editions to be the exception). So technically, Cuban tobacco isn't more nicotine intensive by nature, but it may end up that way because it is missing a vital part of the process in preparing the tobacco. If you think about it, this certainly does not make it better than non cuban cigars, if anything quite the opposite.

    It is my opinion that this is one of the main reasons people say cuban cigars tend to age better compared to non cuban cigars, a fact I tend to agree with but there is a science to it. Even in the aging process you have have chemical reactions taking place, reducing irritants as well as nicotine levels so in essence it is doing what fermentation should have done but over a longer period of time and at a slower rate. That is why I think many non cuban cigars are better right out of the box and cubans for me need at least 3 to 5 years before I will even fire one up. So in essence, that is why many people feel the impact on aging is so much more pronounced with cuban cigars.

    This is all just based on my research and my opinion and like anything else in premium cigars, it is a "to each his own" hobby so take it for what it is worth. I say, smoke what tastes good and what you like. I tell people the best cigar is the one I am smoking at that moment!
  • j0z3rj0z3r Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 9,403
    Good stuff Alex.
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    Yep. Thanks for the insight Alex. Buy non Cubans to smoke now... and Cubans to smoke in a few years...
  • j0z3rj0z3r Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 9,403
    docbp87:
    Yep. Thanks for the insight Alex. Buy non Cubans to smoke now... and Cubans to smoke in a few years...
    That, and buy the good ones now before HSA discontinues them. Fucking butchers.
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    j0z3r:
    docbp87:
    Yep. Thanks for the insight Alex. Buy non Cubans to smoke now... and Cubans to smoke in a few years...
    That, and buy the good ones now before HSA discontinues them. Fucking butchers.
    Don't even get me started on the deletions list that got out today... Holy fack. I am considering taking a little swim down to the island... to choke someone. But that is another topic, for another thread...
  • Gurkha Man!Gurkha Man! Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 232
    Very cool if or when I get a Cuban I know what to do!
  • grannejagranneja Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 382
    As always Alex, a great informative post. Thanks for the education.
  • LasabarLasabar Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,457
    Thank you Alex...

    But that is what I hate about Cubans... I am very choosy when I pick a box, and then to sit on it for years... BLAH!
  • sol1821sol1821 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 706
    Thanks for going into the science Alex, that was a great post.
    Waylander, the person i quoted in my opening post is someone ive spoken to about cigars a few times on a shooting forum im on. Hes one of those ones who only think cubans are good.
  • Alex SvensonAlex Svenson BlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered Users Posts: 1,204
    sol1821:
    Thanks for going into the science Alex, that was a great post.
    Waylander, the person i quoted in my opening post is someone ive spoken to about cigars a few times on a shooting forum im on. Hes one of those ones who only think cubans are good.
    Glad you found it helpful. This year has been a really turning point for me and cigars. I am moving on from the "what" and digging into the "why" so to speak and it has really taught me a lot. The science of cigars is very intereting and the agronomic side especially. I am finding it is equally as complex as the actual cigar making. I met a guy from Europe that has become a good friend over the last few months named Didier. He owns a brand called Nicarao which he makes with AJ in Nicaragua but it is only sold in Europe at the moment. He studied agronomy in Cuba for several years and is a real expert on black tobacco. We are working on a joint project together and his blending and palate are also great. Anyway, he is one of the people I have been spending a lot of time with in terms of this turn I made this year.
  • jj20030jj20030 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,448
    i thought Nicarao was a rocky patel cigar , if you google up Nicarao by rocky patel you will find the one im talking about but i thinks an exculsive for a competitor of yours? i guess in the cigar industry anyone can use the same names etc just add by so and so or alone?
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    Read about Didier Houvenaghel's Nicarao on Nino's site a few times actually. Didn't know he made these with AJ. Very awesome. Would love to try some if they ever make their way to America.
  • sol1821sol1821 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 706
    Alex Svenson:
    sol1821:
    Thanks for going into the science Alex, that was a great post.
    Waylander, the person i quoted in my opening post is someone ive spoken to about cigars a few times on a shooting forum im on. Hes one of those ones who only think cubans are good.
    Glad you found it helpful. This year has been a really turning point for me and cigars. I am moving on from the "what" and digging into the "why" so to speak and it has really taught me a lot. The science of cigars is very intereting and the agronomic side especially. I am finding it is equally as complex as the actual cigar making. I met a guy from Europe that has become a good friend over the last few months named Didier. He owns a brand called Nicarao which he makes with AJ in Nicaragua but it is only sold in Europe at the moment. He studied agronomy in Cuba for several years and is a real expert on black tobacco. We are working on a joint project together and his blending and palate are also great. Anyway, he is one of the people I have been spending a lot of time with in terms of this turn I made this year.
    Humm that sound interesting, as im in europ and love almost every AJ cigar ive had im going to have to track some of those down.
    Do you know if its an online or a b&m brand, or does it not work like that here.
    Ive not noticed anything like that as i usualy avoid all the shops over here as the service doesnt come close to ccom
  • Alex SvensonAlex Svenson BlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered Users Posts: 1,204
    sol1821:
    Alex Svenson:
    sol1821:
    Thanks for going into the science Alex, that was a great post.
    Waylander, the person i quoted in my opening post is someone ive spoken to about cigars a few times on a shooting forum im on. Hes one of those ones who only think cubans are good.
    Glad you found it helpful. This year has been a really turning point for me and cigars. I am moving on from the "what" and digging into the "why" so to speak and it has really taught me a lot. The science of cigars is very intereting and the agronomic side especially. I am finding it is equally as complex as the actual cigar making. I met a guy from Europe that has become a good friend over the last few months named Didier. He owns a brand called Nicarao which he makes with AJ in Nicaragua but it is only sold in Europe at the moment. He studied agronomy in Cuba for several years and is a real expert on black tobacco. We are working on a joint project together and his blending and palate are also great. Anyway, he is one of the people I have been spending a lot of time with in terms of this turn I made this year.
    Humm that sound interesting, as im in europ and love almost every AJ cigar ive had im going to have to track some of those down.
    Do you know if its an online or a b&m brand, or does it not work like that here.
    Ive not noticed anything like that as i usualy avoid all the shops over here as the service doesnt come close to ccom
    Europe does not have mail order really. Each country is technically different. I do know you can find it in B and M stores in select countries. You can find his site online and let him know where you are and he can point you in the right direction I'm sure. He wrote a great book which I am also trying to get out in the US market but right now is only in Europe.
  • Alex SvensonAlex Svenson BlogAdministrator, Everyone, ForumsAdministrator, Moderator, Owners, Registered Users Posts: 1,204
    jj20030:
    i thought Nicarao was a rocky patel cigar , if you google up Nicarao by rocky patel you will find the one im talking about but i thinks an exculsive for a competitor of yours? i guess in the cigar industry anyone can use the same names etc just add by so and so or alone?
    Didier and his Nicarao brand are currently only available in Europe and his line is made with AJ Fernandez for this. Several years ago, since the trademark was not being used in the US market, he did enter into an agreement with Rocky Patel to use the mark in the US as I understand it. The cigar was made at Rockys Factory in Honduras and the brand was sold exclusively to Famous Smoke Shop. My understanding is that for one reason or another it did not do well and Rocky and Didier parted ways amicably. Didier's three Nicrao cigar lines will be available in the US for the first time next year and will be distributed by Meier and Dutch. His cigars are very expensive so we are also working on a two joint projects in addition to his core Nicarao line which will be more value driven. Both will be long filler and both will use Connecticut Habano wrapper which for you guys may have read my quick article on on page 50 of the current cigar.com catalog. Great wrapper. Drew uses it in his T-52 and Partagas uses it in the Partagas Black. I say these will be value driven and I mean it. I think the blends are spectacular price aside but when you consider they will be priced at less than $3 a stick, it is going to be a real home run. Didier and I blended these in Esteli last month. Again, don't expect to see these until next year but they are great and something you will want to keep on your radar. Could be right up there in value with the Gran Habano Vintage bundles IMHO.
  • ENFIDLENFIDL Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,836
    bandyt09:
    j0z3r:
    At the end of the day, a cigar is just a cigar until it proves otherwise.

    This

    This is my feelings. I have some ISOM's I'm saving for special occasions but most of those have come from people as gifts which means more to me than any cigar could.
  • zoom6zoomzoom6zoom Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,214
    I agree very much with Alex. The mystique of Cuban cigars is all that is left. The industry outside of the island has long ago eclipsed Cuba in both raw materials and talent. I have one friend who will only smoke CC's and until recently would not even try anything else. (Recently got him to try a cigar that had cost me $2.50 on CCOM and it blew him away... maybe he won't be ordering from overseas and getting the occasional nastygram from Customs anymore.

    I've had my share of authentic Cubans given to my by friends and BOTL's here. I've yet to be impressed by one. I felt that the 5 Vegas Classic tasted just as good if not better than my last Cohiba.
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