Child discipline...

I have a 5 1/2 year old daughter. She can be a little deamon at times and I'm not sure how to handle her. We aren't pushy or bossy or rude or aggressive with her. But at times she is all of the above. With current society it's frowned upon to spank your child or use any discipline that could be construed as abuse. Fear of spanking my kid and her telling the wrong person scares the hell outta me. We have used time out, taken things away when she has been bad and deprived her of bedtime stories any lullabies. NOTHING has an effect on her. What do we do? I'm so damn stressed out with her behavior and have no effective punishments.

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MorganGeo

We are going through this with my 5 yr old son. Spanking doesn't even phase him. The only thing that really gets to him is if we send him to his room for awhile and he can't do anything. Taking away his fun toys works for us. People say you just need to whoop him but that doesn't always work. You are not alone and I feel your pain. It's not easy

C-LOVE

Everyone has different styles when it comes to parenting but I've always been the no nonsense type parent. My daughter is 10 now but when she was younger I established that when I say something she needs to do it. U have to be consistent and follow up with what u say. U can't let them throw a tantrum for 15 minutes before u do anything, it has to be right away. I'm all for spanking on the butt, that's it for me, not across the face or anywhere else. After I punish I always follow up with a conversation about why I punished and that while I love her with all my heart, I'm her parent and it's my job to discipline. I always looked her in the eyes and made her look into mine. I would make her understand what she did was wrong and I won't tolerate it. Finish it with a hug and kiss and an I love you. I probably spanked my daughter 5 times and to this day if I raise my voice she stops. To many parents want to be their kids friends and feel bad when they discipline and end up giving in and the child wins and doesn't learn to respect what their parents say. It's not easy bro, to look into a child's crying eyes and hold your ground but it is necessary.

Ken Light

The difficult thing about time outs and removing things is that they have to be readily present at the time you remove them. Time outs tend to fail if the child is acting up to get attention in the first place because taking away attention from a child who already wants it is not punishment. As was said earlier, punishment also has to be immediate, and I'll add that it should be decisive; that is, it should not escalate upon repeated behaviors and should instead be whatever you think the maximum should be at the first instance. The punishment for the behavior is what it is and it should be swift and severe the first time and every time thereafter. What that is for you is your choice as a parent.

I should add and admit that I'm saying this as a psychologist, not a parent (yet), since mine's only 11.5 months...

webmost

Hey, look at the bright side: Spunk rules. There inevitably comes a day in everyone's life when a determined spirit makes crucial difference. If you had to choose just one single tool to survive, a sharp knife beats a spoon, every time.

Spunk. Fire. That gleam in her glance. You gotta love a girl with spirit.

A person's vices and virtues are like their eyes, in fact: Both look the same direction, both see the same thing. They come in pairs. Just from different sides.

Hays

LiquidChaos66:
I have a 5 1/2 year old daughter. She can be a little deamon at times and I'm not sure how to handle her. We aren't pushy or bossy or rude or aggressive with her. But at times she is all of the above. With current society it's frowned upon to spank your child or use any discipline that could be construed as abuse. Fear of spanking my kid and her telling the wrong person scares the hell outta me. We have used time out, taken things away when she has been bad and deprived her of bedtime stories any lullabies. NOTHING has an effect on her. What do we do? I'm so damn stressed out with her behavior and have no effective punishments.

Man, I don't have any kids yet, but I'm recently married and we certainly plan on having children. While I don't have any good advice for you (sorry buddy), I've worried about the exact kind of situation that you're describing here, and I'm glad to see that I'm not crazy. Seems like some of the other guys here have dealt with similar situations and have some decent advice though, so hopefully something comes together for you.

bandyt09

C-LOVE:
Everyone has different styles when it comes to parenting but I've always been the no nonsense type parent. My daughter is 10 now but when she was younger I established that when I say something she needs to do it. U have to be consistent and follow up with what u say. U can't let them throw a tantrum for 15 minutes before u do anything, it has to be right away. I'm all for spanking on the butt, that's it for me, not across the face or anywhere else. After I punish I always follow up with a conversation about why I punished and that while I love her with all my heart, I'm her parent and it's my job to discipline. I always looked her in the eyes and made her look into mine. I would make her understand what she did was wrong and I won't tolerate it. Finish it with a hug and kiss and an I love you. I probably spanked my daughter 5 times and to this day if I raise my voice she stops. To many parents want to be their kids friends and feel bad when they discipline and end up giving in and the child wins and doesn't learn to respect what their parents say. It's not easy bro, to look into a child's crying eyes and hold your ground but it is necessary.

Couldn't agree more. My daughters are 9 and 8 and punishing them breaks my heart every time I do, however, it is my job to raise them to be a productive member of society so I have to do what I feel is best right now. The biggest thing that sucks in being a parent is that the decisions you make in regards to your child today you won't see the results until well into the future so how do you know you are doing the right thing today? You don't!

As far as spanking, it is not child abuse. I have had no problem spanking my children if their actions warranted it, in fact, I have done it in front of LE and have had many a conversation with LE in regards to spanking. The problem with spanking is that some people do it in anger and it does get borderline abusive. I never spank in anger, in fact, I'll ask my kids if they deserve a spanking for whatever action they did and I'll get a honest answer.

The other thing I do is to watch what I tell them because anything you say to them you had better be prepared to follow up on it, otherwise your child will know that you don't follow up on what you say.

At my kids' age right now the biggest thing that gets to them is to tell them how disappointed I am in what they have done. My kids want daddy to be proud of them and what they do so when I let them know I am disappointed it does affect them and makes them want to do better. On the flip side, when they do good, I gush over them letting them know how proud I am of them.

jd50ae

bandyt09:
C-LOVE:
Everyone has different styles when it comes to parenting but I've always been the no nonsense type parent. My daughter is 10 now but when she was younger I established that when I say something she needs to do it. U have to be consistent and follow up with what u say. U can't let them throw a tantrum for 15 minutes before u do anything, it has to be right away. I'm all for spanking on the butt, that's it for me, not across the face or anywhere else. After I punish I always follow up with a conversation about why I punished and that while I love her with all my heart, I'm her parent and it's my job to discipline. I always looked her in the eyes and made her look into mine. I would make her understand what she did was wrong and I won't tolerate it. Finish it with a hug and kiss and an I love you. I probably spanked my daughter 5 times and to this day if I raise my voice she stops. To many parents want to be their kids friends and feel bad when they discipline and end up giving in and the child wins and doesn't learn to respect what their parents say. It's not easy bro, to look into a child's crying eyes and hold your ground but it is necessary.
Couldn't agree more. My daughters are 9 and 8 and punishing them breaks my heart every time I do, however, it is my job to raise them to be a productive member of society so I have to do what I feel is best right now. The biggest thing that sucks in being a parent is that the decisions you make in regards to your child today you won't see the results until well into the future so how do you know you are doing the right thing today? You don't!

As far as spanking, it is not child abuse. I have had no problem spanking my children if their actions warranted it, in fact, I have done it in front of LE and have had many a conversation with LE in regards to spanking. The problem with spanking is that some people do it in anger and it does get borderline abusive. I never spank in anger, in fact, I'll ask my kids if they deserve a spanking for whatever action they did and I'll get a honest answer.

The other thing I do is to watch what I tell them because anything you say to them you had better be prepared to follow up on it, otherwise your child will know that you don't follow up on what you say.

At my kids' age right now the biggest thing that gets to them is to tell them how disappointed I am in what they have done. My kids want daddy to be proud of them and what they do so when I let them know I am disappointed it does affect them and makes them want to do better. On the flip side, when they do good, I gush over them letting them know how proud I am of them.

Could not agree more with both of you.

Our problem is we are governed by the rules of the gestapo at TN Child Services because both grand kids are "guardianship".

Every time one of them needs discipline it becomes counseling and our hands are tied. And heaven forbid if I even raise my voice.

I guess we should be thankful they are both members of the brain club and their grades are all A's. They have seen what drugs can do and I am sure that won't be a problem. But they have learned to play the game and are very good at it.

I would love to take one of them "out behind the woodshed" when I get a I dare you smart ash remark. If I could just hold that strap in their face and scare them it would go a long way.

I was beat up every way imaginable when I was a kid and I would never do that to a child, but a spanking sure crosses my mind.

kaspera79

LiquidChaos66:
I have a 5 1/2 year old daughter With current society it's frowned upon to spank your child or use any discipline that could be construed as abuse. Fear of spanking my kid and her telling the wrong person scares the hell outta me

The line of your post that most concerns me is that you fear your child might "report" you to some authority figure. If she knows this now, imagine how she might use this power ten years from now. I have two adult girls who at times were difficult at times, but I never had to, or felt the need to strike them. My wife and I always found that keeping them from doing the things they enjoyed, going out with friends, using the phone, internet, television, sports, favorite games, really got their attention. Also the words you use will have a huge effect on them, My daughter once told me the worst thing I could tell her was that I was disapointed by her. This was said when at a High School Graduation party where she, and several of her friends were arrested for under age drinking.
... Maybe I was just lucky, Raising kids was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do.

LiquidChaos66

I will post a proper reply tomorrow. Lol typing on my phone isnt as easy as it is on my work computer lol

Martel

LiquidChaos66:
I will post a proper reply tomorrow. Lol typing on my phone isnt as easy as it is on my work computer lol

I saw this thread on my phone, but had to wait until I could sit with a keyboard.

Every child is different. Some things work for my son that don't work for my daughter, and vice versa. So take anything anyone has to say with a grain of salt.

I actually regret having spanked my kids. Many times I was angry and it really didn't teach them anything except how to react. The only ones I don't regret were the stepping off the curb types of life endangering things where I was actually preternaturally calm. Even then, my kids were usually too small to understand why Dad would hurt them. I'm not sure that's what helped them learn so much as the fear they sensed from me and other family members in those times.

I'm becoming more a fan of natural consequences. I'm not exclusively using the "Scream Free Parenting" stuff that's out there, but I like some of the ideas. It basically boils down to keeping your cool, setting rules and sticking to them, with natural consequences for breaking them.

Pretty common sense stuff actually, but it's kind of a parental attitude change more than a punishment system.

LiquidChaos66

So we have tried all the methods mentioned above. Getting down and talking to her face to face and explaining why what she did was wrong. We have done time-out just about EVERYWHERE we have gone lol... Cause you know... Every place has a time out no matter where you are. Taking her favorite toys or activities away. None work. They work for the moment and then maybe 5 minutes later she returns to the same behavior. She was in time out over 8 times yesterday and I explained to her why she was there and that she needed to stop and change her behavior. Didn't phase her.

The biggest issue is that she is too damn smart for her own good. If she is in a public place she knows she can get away with hell cause there are people there and she knows we have a hard time disciplining her in public. She will give us this crappy little smirk and purposefully break the rules. There was one instance where we were at a store and she was doing something she shouldn't have. So I grabbed her arm and pulled her away... Yeah im an adult and quite larger than her but I come at her with kid gloves when in public. I don't need some a-hole getting the wrong idea and calling cops on me for abuse. She then turns around, Yells that im hurting her and throws herself on the floor saying I pushed her. No one was around to witness it except my wife. I looked at my wife in total shock and just walked away. Her preschool and kindergarten have taught the children that adults should never lay a hand on them and when they do they need to be reported to other adults or to make a scene to help protect themselves.

So we told her in the car that what she did was wrong. We told her that if she did that people could call the police and I would never get to see her again. I would get thrown in jail and they would take her away from us. The idea of her getting taken away from us didn't phase her at all. She doesn't respond to scare tactics and always figures out how to make any punishment seem not as bad as it should be. I hope to god this is a phase. We are trying so hard to raise a child who will grow up and make a difference in the world... but honestly... we are beyond disappointed with her actions and heart broken that she does what she does. We honestly feel like we did something wrong with her and aren't good parents.

webmost

LiquidChaos66:
We honestly feel like we did something wrong with her and aren't good parents.

Don't take it that way at all. You do not get to make these small people tabula rasa. They are family who came to visit awhile. To a great extent they were made before you met them. Like the rest of your family, there are some you wish you were like, some you love to be with, but also some you would never give the time of day if you met them as strangers. You still love them because they are family. One of the important functions of family is this way it teaches us how to love such extremely different people. Even your classic mother in law has a place at your table. Children are family that same way. They come with character. They are somebody else; they are not you. There's only so much you can do. True, you are responsible for their behavior; but you cannot guarantee it, and society does everything in its power to throw stumbling blocks in your way. That is the illogicality of society; not the truth of the matter.

Don't blame yourselves.

LiquidChaos66

webmost:
LiquidChaos66:
We honestly feel like we did something wrong with her and aren't good parents.
Don't take it that way at all. You do not get to make these small people tabula rasa. They are family who came to visit awhile. To a great extent they were made before you met them. Like the rest of your family, there are some you wish you were like, some you love to be with, but also some you would never give the time of day if you met them as strangers. You still love them because they are family. One of the important functions of family is this way it teaches us how to love such extremely different people. Even your classic mother in law has a place at your table. Children are family that same way. They come with character. They are somebody else; they are not you. There's only so much you can do. True, you are responsible for their behavior; but you cannot guarantee it, and society does everything in its power to throw stumbling blocks in your way. That is the illogicality of society; not the truth of the matter.

Don't blame yourselves.

Its hard not to feel that way sometimes. Especially after really hard days with her. Yeah it breaks my heart to discipline her to the point where she is crying and sad... THEN TO HAVE HER NOT LEARN FROM IT! there have been countless nights where we have sat on the couch after she went to bed and wondered what the hell happened! lol It is a gigantic learning situation... but for someone like me who thinks on a extremely logic based line to have this situation. I just cant understand how she can not learn when she has been so visually distraught over her punishments.

webmost

LiquidChaos66:
THEN TO HAVE HER NOT LEARN FROM IT!

We have an autistic grandson. His parents were in denial. Then, one Christmas, the family were over for dinner. Time to eat. Alex was in the corner mumbling to his fingers as usual, his father was beside me, I called "Alex! Alex! Alex! ALEX!" No response. I turned to his father and said: "It's a shame. Here it is Christmas and Alex can't even tell Santa what he wants." That's when the lights finally went on. They talked, took him to the doctors, hence to the autistic school. School's been working with him since.

He's fourteen now. He is good with computers. We got him a new laptop for Christmas, cause the one we got him five years ago went titz up. He can say a little, when he wants to. Mostly he just sits happily watching the same dinosaur vids over and over on his laptop. School has taught him enough they can take him to KFC on the short bus, he will stand in line, give his order, count out his money, and take his change. All the rest of the family except me is still in denial -- They all keep repeating to each other the same trite phrases about how smart Alex is cause watch him use a computer. Bull -- he shittz his pants, fourteen years old. Lovable happy child; but can't get potty trained. A car ride round a cloverleaf ramp freaks him out; crap in his pants does not. World of things he cannot learn; couple things he can learn. That's Alex.

Put yourself for a moment in his parents' place -- Is it their fault? Did they do something wrong? Is there something they did not do?

No. That's Alex. Better question is, what can he do?

Your girl is smart. Has spunk. Cannot conform. Sounds like the very epitome of many a great American, to me.

Rain

Can't build a house without a hammer ;)Parenting is learning on the job. I've spanked my kids before, but I'm trying to raise kids in to people that use logic and are articulate. So yeah, I'll take their stuff away, for a month if that's what it takes. Nobody likes sitting in the middle of their room all day, heck, my kids can't push ten minutes. It's a privilege to pick out your own clothes, drink kool aid and stay up past sunset. Looks like Dad is picking out your clothes and he sucks at matching. Oh, thirsty? Enjoy some high quality H20. Did I hear a tummy? Balogna and cheese sammich.You can get her attention. I don't care if my kids hate me now, as long as they look back and say "Yeah, Dad was right."

jd50ae

One trick that the TN DCS Gestapo suggested I actually like a bunch.

Buy a laundry basket that if turned upside down looks like jail or prison bars. Or get an actual cage with a lock on it.

When you take away a favorite toy or electronic device put the laundry basket over it on a high shelf and tag it with a release date.

Rain

Martel

Rain:
Can't build a house without a hammer ;)Parenting is learning on the job. I've spanked my kids before, but I'm trying to raise kids in to people that use logic and are articulate. So yeah, I'll take their stuff away, for a month if that's what it takes. Nobody likes sitting in the middle of their room all day, heck, my kids can't push ten minutes. It's a privilege to pick out your own clothes, drink kool aid and stay up past sunset. Looks like Dad is picking out your clothes and he sucks at matching. Oh, thirsty? Enjoy some high quality H20. Did I hear a tummy? Balogna and cheese sammich.You can get her attention. I don't care if my kids hate me now, as long as they look back and say "Yeah, Dad was right."

You're generous with the bologna and cheese. PB&J and they have to make it for themself!

jd50ae

Rain:

Einstein, Newton, Curie, Hawking and Galileo level genius.

Amos Umwhat

I think the most important things are consistency, and mutual support between the parents. Spanking should be a REAL threat, never say you're going to, if you're not going to. Always explain in real terms the "why" of whatever the situation is.

I know a woman who, when I said "I'd be turning her bottom red about now", replied; "I never discipline her unless I've told her to do something three times". That teaches a kid they don't have to obey you the first two times you tell them something.

A quick thought about "Never spank your children, you're just teaching them to hit"

What do the Masai, the Comanche, and the Mongols have in common?

These three separate groups all believed that children should never be spanked. They also produced the most violent adult warriors the world has ever seen. Think about it.

If it becomes necessary to spank, you're not teaching your child to hit. Any group of 2 year-olds , who've never seen hitting, will hit each other if not enough food or toys or nap time are provided. It's just human. Spanking the child teaches them what it feels like to be hit, so they're less likely to do it to others. It also teaches them that continued unreasonable behavior will eventually bring about unreasonable behavior (hitting) from their parents.

Good luck to you, and remember, if you don't get control NOW, you are in for a terrible time in a few years.

LiquidChaos66

She has just come into a nasty cold... Which she usually acts up hardcore when she is getting sick. That makes a lot of sense now. BUT that doesn't explain why she is usually a turd. lol Such a hard learning process. Thanks for all the great input guys! its also nice to know im not the only one who is or has been through this. lol

Im just gonna have to hold on to all this frustration until she is older... I plan on teaching her how to properly sword fight... ill take a few cheap shots at her while she is learning to make up for her attitude.

LOL!!!!