Ethics question
curtiscr79
Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 859
I have a situation where ethics are in questions. Let me give you a little back story.
Allow me to give you some back-story.
There is a local smoking ordinance preventing smoking in just about any public building. I am also an Admin for a local Cigar group on Facebook. Many of the B&M shop owners are members and the group promotes supporting them. The problem I am having is there is a shop that is telling its customers that they are allowed to smoke at one of their locations because it is a “Warehouse” or “Private Office”, however if you read the ordinance it says plainly that this does not fit the exception and the customers themselves, the employee working, the owner of the business, and the owner of the building can all be fined if caught. I have participated in many of the events at this location with the assumption that the owners wouldn’t put me at risk of being fined, However, after finding out the truth I am to afraid to return (at least smoking, I still stop by time to time to purchase and leave). The last thing I want is a fine that starts at $50 per offence. Then there is also a local Cigar Society that is trying to do the same thing. Tell potential new member that they can buy into the “Members Only” club at $500 a year and have access to their clubhouse to smoke. Even though the ordinance even has in the wording that “Private Clubs” are included and can be shut down and each person caught getting a fine.
As an Admin I feel obligated to inform the other members that they are in danger of being fined even thou they are not aware of it. I don’t want to come off as a snitch, however if it was me I would want to know.
If you were in the same situation how would you handle it?
Allow me to give you some back-story.
There is a local smoking ordinance preventing smoking in just about any public building. I am also an Admin for a local Cigar group on Facebook. Many of the B&M shop owners are members and the group promotes supporting them. The problem I am having is there is a shop that is telling its customers that they are allowed to smoke at one of their locations because it is a “Warehouse” or “Private Office”, however if you read the ordinance it says plainly that this does not fit the exception and the customers themselves, the employee working, the owner of the business, and the owner of the building can all be fined if caught. I have participated in many of the events at this location with the assumption that the owners wouldn’t put me at risk of being fined, However, after finding out the truth I am to afraid to return (at least smoking, I still stop by time to time to purchase and leave). The last thing I want is a fine that starts at $50 per offence. Then there is also a local Cigar Society that is trying to do the same thing. Tell potential new member that they can buy into the “Members Only” club at $500 a year and have access to their clubhouse to smoke. Even though the ordinance even has in the wording that “Private Clubs” are included and can be shut down and each person caught getting a fine.
As an Admin I feel obligated to inform the other members that they are in danger of being fined even thou they are not aware of it. I don’t want to come off as a snitch, however if it was me I would want to know.
If you were in the same situation how would you handle it?
Comments
"Smoke-free law is in effect, bringing major health improvements to the community. The new law prohibits smoking in public buildings and workplaces in Louisville Metro, including such places as:• Offices• Factories• Bars• Restaurants• Private Clubs• Bingo halls• Bowling alleys• Stores"
Personally, I now know the law and will follow it even thou I don't agree with it. I just think it is a shame they are telling the members that they have nothing to worry about. Being one of the admins I also don't wasn't to start an argument on the internet, they tend get out of hand.
2) "Public Private Clubs" is and should remain an oxymoron
3) But despite our best intentions and ideals, the law is often not what's on the books, but what's enforced.
My final opinion? I don't think you have an ethical dilemma at all. The ethics here are clear and those that put their members at risk are the ones on the wrong side. What you have here is an administrative dilemma; what direction should this online community go in: one that will support it's members' best interests when they conflict with those of business owners, or vice versa. That's not something I can help with, it's a personal choice.
Thanks for all of your advice.
Actually, I see quite a bit of gray area here. The first sentence clearly specifies public buildings and workplaces. The bylaw can easily be construed to only regulate those private clubs that occupy publicly accessible buildings, or buildings with public common areas.
A "private club" within a public business (B&M) would likely be regulated, however you need to view your town or county bylaw for the definition of a building. (believe it or not, it is not always as obvious as it sounds)
But what about a local VFW building that's privately owned and rented out for a meeting of a members-only smoking club? If no employee is actually working there at the time of the event, then technically is this really a workplace or public building?
I would think that the cigar B&M doesn't have strong of a case about the legality, since the warehouse is technically a workplace. I would think that the location would have to be completely privately owned, access would be limited to a select group (i.e., no walk ins) and no one could "technically" be working during the event--i.e., no bartenders, no one picking up ash trays, or at least for pay.
On the other hand, I would imagine each community would choose how it enforces the rules, so you might just want to play it safe and not go to any events. Even if your fine is covered by the cost of membership, the fine is still on your permanent record.
The next thing I'd do is look at what an "Admin" is supposed to be. I'm sensing that you feel like you should say something because you're an Admin. Would you feel compelled if you were just a member? Do you want to keep a position of Authority (if that's what it is) within a group that practices this kind of behavior? Is there even any bad behavior? Are they even aware? Lot's of stuff needs to be asked, and explored before I would decide what to do.