While I repect Doctors and what they do, and hospitals and the sevice they provide, I think it all needs to be stated that it starts with the cost of healthcare in the first place. Why should it cost 300-1000 dollars for someone to take an x-ray of you? IMO the prices charged for healthcare are unrealistic and over inflated. Now, this doesn't apply to every field of medicine, but there is way too much greed in the medical community.
P.S. Not intending to insult the BOTL here that belong to the medical community, I know there are a few of you.
I think you bring up an interesting point. The overcharging is how we're paying for those who don't, won't, or can't pay. So, in effect, what's been done for decades is essentially to "tax" ,so to speak, the sickest, and their insurance comapanies, to cover the cost of universal care. Because we already have universal care, everyone gets seen, everyone gets treated, those who are sickest, most hurt, pay the difference if they have means or health insurance.
So, it seems that our choices are: a) Return to a system of no cash no care, or b) Come up with some kind of universal plan that everyone pays into.
One thing's for sure, what we've been doing for the last 40 years or so isn't working.
I believe that if everyone had to pay for their own doctor bills that the cost of care would go down. No one has any idea what doctor visits or tests actually cost since they dont pay.
I totally agree. I think that obesity rates, cancer rates(lung), diabetes, etc. would all decrease once people were responsible for their own health. People would actually take better care of themselves and eachother!
And if you can't afford to pay for your medical care, and you have cancer, or some other life threatening illness, then the poor should just be allowed to die?
We will always have the poor. What percent of the population are you comfortable with? 10%? 47%? We can take care of the 10%. Fix the economy and many of these problems go away. We cant have 53% paying the entire bill. Doesn't work in any kind of government.
That is not an answer to my question. It is a statement intended to dodge my question. When the poor get sick, should they be allowed to die bacause they do not have the means to pay? If they survive their illness, should they be bankrupted and loose everything they own because they had the audacity to get sick?
First step is to define poor. The guy with the iphone and tons of toys ... is he poor? Is he poor because he would rather play than work? Rather buy toys than insurance? We make it too easy to get government handouts then we wonder why the country is broke.
While I repect Doctors and what they do, and hospitals and the sevice they provide, I think it all needs to be stated that it starts with the cost of healthcare in the first place. Why should it cost 300-1000 dollars for someone to take an x-ray of you? IMO the prices charged for healthcare are unrealistic and over inflated. Now, this doesn't apply to every field of medicine, but there is way too much greed in the medical community.
P.S. Not intending to insult the BOTL here that belong to the medical community, I know there are a few of you.
I think you bring up an interesting point. The overcharging is how we're paying for those who don't, won't, or can't pay. So, in effect, what's been done for decades is essentially to "tax" ,so to speak, the sickest, and their insurance comapanies, to cover the cost of universal care. Because we already have universal care, everyone gets seen, everyone gets treated, those who are sickest, most hurt, pay the difference if they have means or health insurance.
So, it seems that our choices are: a) Return to a system of no cash no care, or b) Come up with some kind of universal plan that everyone pays into.
One thing's for sure, what we've been doing for the last 40 years or so isn't working.
I believe that if everyone had to pay for their own doctor bills that the cost of care would go down. No one has any idea what doctor visits or tests actually cost since they dont pay.
I totally agree. I think that obesity rates, cancer rates(lung), diabetes, etc. would all decrease once people were responsible for their own health. People would actually take better care of themselves and eachother!
And if you can't afford to pay for your medical care, and you have cancer, or some other life threatening illness, then the poor should just be allowed to die?
We will always have the poor. What percent of the population are you comfortable with? 10%? 47%? We can take care of the 10%. Fix the economy and many of these problems go away. We cant have 53% paying the entire bill. Doesn't work in any kind of government.
That is not an answer to my question. It is a statement intended to dodge my question. When the poor get sick, should they be allowed to die bacause they do not have the means to pay? If they survive their illness, should they be bankrupted and loose everything they own because they had the audacity to get sick?
First step is to define poor. The guy with the iphone and tons of toys ... is he poor? Is he poor because he would rather play than work? Rather buy toys than insurance? We make it too easy to get government handouts then we wonder why the country is broke.
In the name of civility I will not say in public what I think of your assumption that everyone who is poor does not want to work. There are millions and millions of people who work very hard every day in low wage jobs, and who have a cell phone, but whose employer does not provide health coverage. That's why it has become necessary to get everyone covered by AFFORDABLE health insurance.
What do you think would happen to the price of auto insurance if, suddenly, it was no longer mandantory for everyone to be covered? Millions and millions of people would drop it quicker than you can say bye bye affordable auto insurance, and the price for the same coverage the rest of us has would skyrocket.
The problem is not defining the poor.
The place to start is by answering the simple question: When the poor get sick, should they be allowed to die if they do not have the means to pay for their health care, or should they be made bankrupt and face foreclosure and the loss of all property if they do not die, and face years of punishment in the form of harassment from bill collectors and bad credit, all because they had the audacity to get sick and need medical care? Is profit more valuable than life?
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
So here my friend, is the rest of the story……..(long but I know you want all the facts)
My brother and I (he is a Democrat and I am a Republican and you will understand why later in the story) grew up in the same household. We went to the same grade school. He went to a private high school and I went to a public high school. We went to the same public college. He graduated with a degree in engineering and then went on to get his MBA. I left college because I enjoyed working and I got married. My biggest regret in life (the ‘no degree’ part not the marriage) It is a good thing that I liked computers and did very well with them.
Throughout our careers we earned very similar salaries. Throughout his life, he lived in Chicago, Minnesota, California and Colorado. He traded up in houses many times. I landed in Texas and bought one house (35 years ago) for $100,000 that grew in value to $400,000 and then crashed down to just $250,000. He traded up many times until he bought a house that cost just over $1,000,000. My house was paid off years ago. Free and clear today. His house crashed to $500,000 and he owes about $600,000 on it.
He had a new BMW every year and his wife enjoyed her new Lexus. Today I drive the same car that I bought in 1988. I paid cash for my car.
He took lavish vacations to Europe and Hawaii and other places every year. I took more modest vacations generally visiting national parks here in the good old USA.
Simple story. I scrimped and sacrificed and saved every penny. He spent it all and then some.
I remembered a president way back when I was a kid (Kennedy? Or Nixon? Or Ford? I don’t remember who), told Americans to save for their own retirement and not to count on the government. I listened. He didn’t.
Now at age 60 we both find ourselves out of work. My house is paid for. He owes a ton. He has every toy imaginable. I do not.
So, today I can retire on what I scrimped and saved and he is “poor”.
You are telling me that since he is “poor” that YOU want to pay for his health insurance and medical care. Will you also pay for mine?
It seems to me that you are not paying for his health insurance and medical care, but rather, you are funding his previous lavish lifestyle and toys. (I am assuming you are one of the 53% who actually pay Federal Income Tax) I say YOU want to pay for his medical bills because the government has no money. All of the government money is YOUR money. I am sure you understand that.
So now you know the rest of the story.
Tell me that you want to pay for his medical care. I do not.
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
So here my friend, is the rest of the story……..(long but I know you want all the facts)
My brother and I (he is a Democrat and I am a Republican and you will understand why later in the story) grew up in the same household. We went to the same grade school. He went to a private high school and I went to a public high school. We went to the same public college. He graduated with a degree in engineering and then went on to get his MBA. I left college because I enjoyed working and I got married. My biggest regret in life (the ‘no degree’ part not the marriage) It is a good thing that I liked computers and did very well with them.
Throughout our careers we earned very similar salaries. Throughout his life, he lived in Chicago, Minnesota, California and Colorado. He traded up in houses many times. I landed in Texas and bought one house (35 years ago) for $100,000 that grew in value to $400,000 and then crashed down to just $250,000. He traded up many times until he bought a house that cost just over $1,000,000. My house was paid off years ago. Free and clear today. His house crashed to $500,000 and he owes about $600,000 on it.
He had a new BMW every year and his wife enjoyed her new Lexus. Today I drive the same car that I bought in 1988. I paid cash for my car.
He took lavish vacations to Europe and Hawaii and other places every year. I took more modest vacations generally visiting national parks here in the good old USA.
Simple story. I scrimped and sacrificed and saved every penny. He spent it all and then some.
I remembered a president way back when I was a kid (Kennedy? Or Nixon? Or Ford? I don’t remember who), told Americans to save for their own retirement and not to count on the government. I listened. He didn’t.
Now at age 60 we both find ourselves out of work. My house is paid for. He owes a ton. He has every toy imaginable. I do not.
So, today I can retire on what I scrimped and saved and he is “poor”.
You are telling me that since he is “poor” that YOU want to pay for his health insurance and medical care. Will you also pay for mine?
It seems to me that you are not paying for his health insurance and medical care, but rather, you are funding his previous lavish lifestyle and toys. (I am assuming you are one of the 53% who actually pay Federal Income Tax) I say YOU want to pay for his medical bills because the government has no money. All of the government money is YOUR money. I am sure you understand that.
So now you know the rest of the story.
Tell me that you want to pay for his medical care. I do not.
I will not live in a country that says to those without means that they should die if they get sick. That is not a society that I will live in. Profit is not more valuable than life. And if you believe that most democrats have lived as your brother has, then I will just leave you to your delusions and your fairy tales. Happy trails to you....
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
So here my friend, is the rest of the story……..(long but I know you want all the facts)
My brother and I (he is a Democrat and I am a Republican and you will understand why later in the story) grew up in the same household. We went to the same grade school. He went to a private high school and I went to a public high school. We went to the same public college. He graduated with a degree in engineering and then went on to get his MBA. I left college because I enjoyed working and I got married. My biggest regret in life (the ‘no degree’ part not the marriage) It is a good thing that I liked computers and did very well with them.
Throughout our careers we earned very similar salaries. Throughout his life, he lived in Chicago, Minnesota, California and Colorado. He traded up in houses many times. I landed in Texas and bought one house (35 years ago) for $100,000 that grew in value to $400,000 and then crashed down to just $250,000. He traded up many times until he bought a house that cost just over $1,000,000. My house was paid off years ago. Free and clear today. His house crashed to $500,000 and he owes about $600,000 on it.
He had a new BMW every year and his wife enjoyed her new Lexus. Today I drive the same car that I bought in 1988. I paid cash for my car.
He took lavish vacations to Europe and Hawaii and other places every year. I took more modest vacations generally visiting national parks here in the good old USA.
Simple story. I scrimped and sacrificed and saved every penny. He spent it all and then some.
I remembered a president way back when I was a kid (Kennedy? Or Nixon? Or Ford? I don’t remember who), told Americans to save for their own retirement and not to count on the government. I listened. He didn’t.
Now at age 60 we both find ourselves out of work. My house is paid for. He owes a ton. He has every toy imaginable. I do not.
So, today I can retire on what I scrimped and saved and he is “poor”.
You are telling me that since he is “poor” that YOU want to pay for his health insurance and medical care. Will you also pay for mine?
It seems to me that you are not paying for his health insurance and medical care, but rather, you are funding his previous lavish lifestyle and toys. (I am assuming you are one of the 53% who actually pay Federal Income Tax) I say YOU want to pay for his medical bills because the government has no money. All of the government money is YOUR money. I am sure you understand that.
So now you know the rest of the story.
Tell me that you want to pay for his medical care. I do not.
I will not live in a country that says to those without means that they should die if they get sick. That is not a society that I will live in. Profit is not more valuable than life.
So, which country have you chosen to move to? Many years ago, when gun control began to be a 'hot' topic, I decided that if they were going to take away my guns I'd move to a country where they weren't controlled so tightly. I did a ton of research on countries, beginning with the English-speaking ones but including most countries a person can think of. I learned that, no matter how bad the USA was still 'way ahead of all of them. I'm still here..... Where are you going?
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
So here my friend, is the rest of the story……..(long but I know you want all the facts)
My brother and I (he is a Democrat and I am a Republican and you will understand why later in the story) grew up in the same household. We went to the same grade school. He went to a private high school and I went to a public high school. We went to the same public college. He graduated with a degree in engineering and then went on to get his MBA. I left college because I enjoyed working and I got married. My biggest regret in life (the ‘no degree’ part not the marriage) It is a good thing that I liked computers and did very well with them.
Throughout our careers we earned very similar salaries. Throughout his life, he lived in Chicago, Minnesota, California and Colorado. He traded up in houses many times. I landed in Texas and bought one house (35 years ago) for $100,000 that grew in value to $400,000 and then crashed down to just $250,000. He traded up many times until he bought a house that cost just over $1,000,000. My house was paid off years ago. Free and clear today. His house crashed to $500,000 and he owes about $600,000 on it.
He had a new BMW every year and his wife enjoyed her new Lexus. Today I drive the same car that I bought in 1988. I paid cash for my car.
He took lavish vacations to Europe and Hawaii and other places every year. I took more modest vacations generally visiting national parks here in the good old USA.
Simple story. I scrimped and sacrificed and saved every penny. He spent it all and then some.
I remembered a president way back when I was a kid (Kennedy? Or Nixon? Or Ford? I don’t remember who), told Americans to save for their own retirement and not to count on the government. I listened. He didn’t.
Now at age 60 we both find ourselves out of work. My house is paid for. He owes a ton. He has every toy imaginable. I do not.
So, today I can retire on what I scrimped and saved and he is “poor”.
You are telling me that since he is “poor” that YOU want to pay for his health insurance and medical care. Will you also pay for mine?
It seems to me that you are not paying for his health insurance and medical care, but rather, you are funding his previous lavish lifestyle and toys. (I am assuming you are one of the 53% who actually pay Federal Income Tax) I say YOU want to pay for his medical bills because the government has no money. All of the government money is YOUR money. I am sure you understand that.
So now you know the rest of the story.
Tell me that you want to pay for his medical care. I do not.
I will not live in a country that says to those without means that they should die if they get sick. That is not a society that I will live in. Profit is not more valuable than life.
So, which country have you chosen to move to? Many years ago, when gun control began to be a 'hot' topic, I decided that if they were going to take away my guns I'd move to a country where they weren't controlled so tightly. I did a ton of research on countries, beginning with the English-speaking ones but including most countries a person can think of. I learned that, no matter how bad the USA was still 'way ahead of all of them. I'm still here..... Where are you going?
Personally, I am convinced that the American People will not allow that to happen. We are much better than that. Christian morality still runs pretty deep here, and if the social darwinists actually start to legislate, I believe there will be a backlash from those who still read and believe the words of the Christ.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
I would suggest some light reading for JDH..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
I would suggest some light reading for you..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
I believe YOU are the only one to mention PROFIT.... never came from me.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
I would suggest some light reading for you..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
I have read all of Ms. Rands books, and I completely reject her Social Darwinist philosophy.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
I would suggest some light reading for you..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
I have read all of Ms. Rands books, and I completely reject her Social Darwinist philosophy.
Good ! The way things are going you actually may get to LIVE it besides reading it !!! Good luck to you my friend.
Fascinating that you cannot answer my question of defining "poor" and that YOU are the only one to talk about PROFIT. Never even came to my mind. You seem obsessed with it.
So you DO think it is fair that YOU pay for his medical care (ie Lavish foolish lifestyle). We disagree on fair my friend. The Democrat part was simply due to his surroundings (CA, MN, CO, etc.) Nothing more. I landed in TX and I am Republican. That's all. I see the same lavish lifestyles in Republicans too. I wont pay for their lavish lifestyles either. You my friend seem perfectly happy to fund their toys. That said..... feel free to send me some cigars..... so I can continue to pay for my health care. Seems like a fair trade. Sticks cost a lot less.
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
Yep.... for JDH.... not you.......
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
It doesn't matter to me why they are poor. Profit is not more valuable than life.
I would suggest some light reading for you..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
I have read all of Ms. Rands books, and I completely reject her Social Darwinist philosophy.
Good ! The way things are going you actually may get to LIVE it besides reading it !!! Good luck to you my friend.
It's truly amazing how you can make so many assumptions about somebody you have never met, someone you know nothing about, someone that you have no clue as to how they have lived their life. I won't wish you luck, because, being the entirely self-reliant soul you pose yourself as, you don't need any. I won't call you friend, either, because I reserve that word for people I actually know, and can apply it to honestly.
You also wont define poor. And you seem obsessed with PROFIT..... you say it over and over..... I never mentioned it and in fact I have no idea whose profit you are referring to. Care to define poor my friend?
You also wont define poor. And you seem obsessed with PROFIT..... you say it over and over..... I never mentioned it and in fact I have no idea whose profit you are referring to. Care to define poor my friend?
I see no reason to "define the poor". I believe the problems in our healthcare system involve excessive profit, which explains why we have one of the most expensive healthcare delivery systems in the world. That is the heart of the matter. Defining who the poor are and why they are poor has nothing to do with the costs associated with our healthcare system.
You also wont define poor. And you seem obsessed with PROFIT..... you say it over and over..... I never mentioned it and in fact I have no idea whose profit you are referring to. Care to define poor my friend?
I see no reason to "define the poor". I believe the problems in our healthcare system involve excessive profit, which explains why we have one of the most expensive healthcare delivery systems in the world. That is the heart of the matter. Defining who the poor are and why they are poor has nothing to do with the costs associated with our healthcare system.
If we cant define poor how will we know who should pay and who gets free care? You say we should take care of the poor. I agree but we cant do that unless we know who is and who isnt right ? As I see it we ARE taking care of the poor right now and that is a major reason that medical care is expensive. Those who pay are paying for medical care and also paying for those who dont pay right ?
What other country would you rather go to for your medical care? Seems everyone comes here for the best care.
You also wont define poor. And you seem obsessed with PROFIT..... you say it over and over..... I never mentioned it and in fact I have no idea whose profit you are referring to. Care to define poor my friend?
I see no reason to "define the poor". I believe the problems in our healthcare system involve excessive profit, which explains why we have one of the most expensive healthcare delivery systems in the world. That is the heart of the matter. Defining who the poor are and why they are poor has nothing to do with the costs associated with our healthcare system.
If we cant define poor how will we know who should pay and who gets free care? You say we should take care of the poor. I agree but we cant do that unless we know who is and who isnt right ? As I see it we ARE taking care of the poor right now and that is a major reason that medical care is expensive. Those who pay are paying for medical care and also paying for those who dont pay right ?
What other country would you rather go to for your medical care? Seems everyone comes here for the best care.
Neither of us are informed enough to define a legal definition of "poor", however, I believe that has already been done by people with access to a lot more statistics than either of us have. It seems pointless to try to make that decision. You probably have an idea who is poor and who isn't. It also seems to be of some importance to you why someone is poor, and those circumstances seem to have a determining bearing on whether or not they deserve to have access to medical care. However, I do not share your interests, or your concerns.
I disagree that we are taking care of the poor, but I believe the Affordable Care Act will go a long way to solve that problem. I believe the reason our health care delivery system is so expensive involves excessive costs unrelated to actual care, insurance profits, and to unethical billing practices motivated by profit.
It should not matter to you where I would choose to relocate. That would be my choice, and it would not be subject to your approval or disaproval, therefore it really should not concern you. Just rest assured that I can think of many countries that I believe are much more civilized than the United States.
And we get back to my original question in the first post. Is anyone else having a problem finding a doctor that will accept Medicare. As answered by Dr. M (aka Nanner Puddin) the answer is YES and much worse for Medicaid. He no longer takes Medicaid patients and is reconsidering Medicare with the impending cuts.
We agree something needs to be fixed. We disagree on how. What is law today appears to create a bigger problem. The second post is pretty clear on that issue. I dont have an answer but I appreciate the quality of care we get in the US.
It should not matter to you where I would choose to relocate. That would be my choice, and it would not be subject to your approval or disaproval, therefore it really should not concern you. Just rest assured that I can think of many countries that I believe are much more civilized than the United States.
Best of luck to you in your new country of choice, my friend.
And we get back to my original question in the first post. Is anyone else having a problem finding a doctor that will accept Medicare. As answered by Dr. M (aka Nanner Puddin) the answer is YES and much worse for Medicaid. He no longer takes Medicaid patients and is reconsidering Medicare with the impending cuts.
We agree something needs to be fixed. We disagree on how. What is law today appears to create a bigger problem. The second post is pretty clear on that issue. I dont have an answer but I appreciate the care we get in the US.
I am not eligible for Medicare yet, so I cannot answer that question. Both of my parents are still living, and they are not having any trouble in that regard. They live north of Austin. I will not conclude that the answer is YES, because I do not have sufficient evidence that it is true. It seems a hasty conclusion to jump to, with so little evidence. I cannot agree withyour conclusion that "what is law today is creating a bigger problem". that also seems to be hasty, excessively broad, and without fact to back up the claim. It is an opinion, and you are entitled to it, but that's all it is, an opinion.
I also appreciate the care some of us have access to in the US. However, if the Social Darwinists are successful in legislating their social agenda, then I will not live in the country of my birth any longer, because it will become a place in which I will not live.
And we get back to my original question in the first post. Is anyone else having a problem finding a doctor that will accept Medicare. As answered by Dr. M (aka Nanner Puddin) the answer is YES and much worse for Medicaid. He no longer takes Medicaid patients and is reconsidering Medicare with the impending cuts.
We agree something needs to be fixed. We disagree on how. What is law today appears to create a bigger problem. The second post is pretty clear on that issue. I dont have an answer but I appreciate the care we get in the US.
I am not eligible for Medicare yet, so I cannot answer that question. Both of my parents are still living, and they are not having any trouble in that regard. They live north of Austin. I will not conclude that the answer is YES, because I do not have sufficient evidence that it is true. It seems a hasty conclusion to jump to, with so little evidence. I cannot agree withyour conclusion that "what is law today is creating a bigger problem". that also seems to be hasty, excessively broad, and without fact to back up the claim. It is an opinion, and you are entitled to it, but that's all it is, an opinion.
I also appreciate the care some of us have access to in the US. However, if the Social Darwinists are successful in legislating their social agenda, then I will not live in the country of my birth any longer, because it will become a place in which I will not live.
The facts didnt come from me they come from the others posting on this thread. Reading the posts here from doctors and others having issues with Medicare tells me some have a problem finding a doctor that accepts medicare and some dont. Seems that you have 2 with no problems and there are three here with problems. Darn small sample but not encouraging.
The good DR. gave a good description of the issues today and in the future.
And we get back to my original question in the first post. Is anyone else having a problem finding a doctor that will accept Medicare. As answered by Dr. M (aka Nanner Puddin) the answer is YES and much worse for Medicaid. He no longer takes Medicaid patients and is reconsidering Medicare with the impending cuts.
We agree something needs to be fixed. We disagree on how. What is law today appears to create a bigger problem. The second post is pretty clear on that issue. I dont have an answer but I appreciate the care we get in the US.
I am not eligible for Medicare yet, so I cannot answer that question. Both of my parents are still living, and they are not having any trouble in that regard. They live north of Austin. I will not conclude that the answer is YES, because I do not have sufficient evidence that it is true. It seems a hasty conclusion to jump to, with so little evidence. I cannot agree withyour conclusion that "what is law today is creating a bigger problem". that also seems to be hasty, excessively broad, and without fact to back up the claim. It is an opinion, and you are entitled to it, but that's all it is, an opinion.
I also appreciate the care some of us have access to in the US. However, if the Social Darwinists are successful in legislating their social agenda, then I will not live in the country of my birth any longer, because it will become a place in which I will not live.
The facts didnt come from me they come from the others posting on this thread. Reading the posts here from doctors and others having issues with Medicare tells me some have a problem finding a doctor that accepts medicare and some dont. Seems that you have 2 with no problems and there are three here with problems. Darn small sample but not encouraging.
The good DR. gave a good description of the issues today and in the future.
Whatever.......I think this conversation has about run it's course.
I would like to add one more thing to this conversation. I have a friend in Missisippi (sp) and she has coustdy of both her grand kids and one of them has Asberger Autism and she was told just recently with some of the recent changes to the health care system that have started to take effect the $1500.00 a month therapy her grandson was getting won't be covered fully like it was before. The govt. will now only cover $300.00 and she will be responsible for the remainder.
She was in tears telling me that her grandson will have to go without his therapy cause they don't have $1200.00 left over after essentials each month. I thought the President said his plan wouldn't leave kids with disabilities to fend for themselves? Seems to me the only ones sitting good with this new Obama Care are the college kids that get to stay on their parents insurance and the ones getting screwed are those on Medicare like me or the young ones with disabilities like my friends grandson.
I would like to add one more thing to this conversation. I have a friend in Missisippi (sp) and she has coustdy of both her grand kids and one of them has Asberger Autism and she was told just recently with some of the recent changes to the health care system that have started to take effect the $1500.00 a month therapy her grandson was getting won't be covered fully like it was before. The govt. will now only cover $300.00 and she will be responsible for the remainder.
She was in tears telling me that her grandson will have to go without his therapy cause they don't have $1200.00 left over after essentials each month. I thought the President said his plan wouldn't leave kids with disabilities to fend for themselves? Seems to me the only ones sitting good with this new Obama Care are the college kids that get to stay on their parents insurance and the ones getting screwed are those on Medicare like me or the young ones with disabilities like my friends grandson.
Not to disagree with anything you've said, but remember that what made it into legislation wasn't "Obamacare", it was "tinkered with by lobbyist for special interest modified by compromise with Republicans and Insurance company compromise care".
I would like to add one more thing to this conversation. I have a friend in Missisippi (sp) and she has coustdy of both her grand kids and one of them has Asberger Autism and she was told just recently with some of the recent changes to the health care system that have started to take effect the $1500.00 a month therapy her grandson was getting won't be covered fully like it was before. The govt. will now only cover $300.00 and she will be responsible for the remainder.
She was in tears telling me that her grandson will have to go without his therapy cause they don't have $1200.00 left over after essentials each month. I thought the President said his plan wouldn't leave kids with disabilities to fend for themselves? Seems to me the only ones sitting good with this new Obama Care are the college kids that get to stay on their parents insurance and the ones getting screwed are those on Medicare like me or the young ones with disabilities like my friends grandson.
I would much rather be you and me than the 'kids' today who are on the parents plan ....... they have a big shock coming the their future.
Comments
What do you think would happen to the price of auto insurance if, suddenly, it was no longer mandantory for everyone to be covered? Millions and millions of people would drop it quicker than you can say bye bye affordable auto insurance, and the price for the same coverage the rest of us has would skyrocket.
The problem is not defining the poor.
The place to start is by answering the simple question: When the poor get sick, should they be allowed to die if they do not have the means to pay for their health care, or should they be made bankrupt and face foreclosure and the loss of all property if they do not die, and face years of punishment in the form of harassment from bill collectors and bad credit, all because they had the audacity to get sick and need medical care? Is profit more valuable than life?
Any country that accepts that is not a fit place in which to live.
So here my friend, is the rest of the story……..(long but I know you want all the facts)
My brother and I (he is a Democrat and I am a Republican and you will understand why later in the story) grew up in the same household. We went to the same grade school. He went to a private high school and I went to a public high school. We went to the same public college. He graduated with a degree in engineering and then went on to get his MBA. I left college because I enjoyed working and I got married. My biggest regret in life (the ‘no degree’ part not the marriage) It is a good thing that I liked computers and did very well with them.
Throughout our careers we earned very similar salaries. Throughout his life, he lived in Chicago, Minnesota, California and Colorado. He traded up in houses many times. I landed in Texas and bought one house (35 years ago) for $100,000 that grew in value to $400,000 and then crashed down to just $250,000. He traded up many times until he bought a house that cost just over $1,000,000. My house was paid off years ago. Free and clear today. His house crashed to $500,000 and he owes about $600,000 on it.
He had a new BMW every year and his wife enjoyed her new Lexus. Today I drive the same car that I bought in 1988. I paid cash for my car.
He took lavish vacations to Europe and Hawaii and other places every year. I took more modest vacations generally visiting national parks here in the good old USA.
Simple story. I scrimped and sacrificed and saved every penny. He spent it all and then some.
I remembered a president way back when I was a kid (Kennedy? Or Nixon? Or Ford? I don’t remember who), told Americans to save for their own retirement and not to count on the government. I listened. He didn’t.
Now at age 60 we both find ourselves out of work. My house is paid for. He owes a ton. He has every toy imaginable. I do not.
So, today I can retire on what I scrimped and saved and he is “poor”.
You are telling me that since he is “poor” that YOU want to pay for his health insurance and medical care. Will you also pay for mine?
It seems to me that you are not paying for his health insurance and medical care, but rather, you are funding his previous lavish lifestyle and toys. (I am assuming you are one of the 53% who actually pay Federal Income Tax) I say YOU want to pay for his medical bills because the government has no money. All of the government money is YOUR money. I am sure you understand that.
So now you know the rest of the story.
Tell me that you want to pay for his medical care. I do not.
So, which country have you chosen to move to? Many years ago, when gun control began to be a 'hot' topic, I decided that if they were going to take away my guns I'd move to a country where they weren't controlled so tightly. I did a ton of research on countries, beginning with the English-speaking ones but including most countries a person can think of. I learned that, no matter how bad the USA was still 'way ahead of all of them. I'm still here..... Where are you going?
Are you responding to me or to JDH?
I have no issue caring for poor. I have yet to get a definition of poor vs foolish. He seems to not want to tackle that one.
I would suggest some light reading for JDH..... might want to read "Atlas Shrugged" When all the people are foolish and poor what then ? Who will take care of you ?
Ah, but no one ever said life was fair
I believe YOU are the only one to mention PROFIT.... never came from me.
Fascinating that you cannot answer my question of defining "poor" and that YOU are the only one to talk about PROFIT. Never even came to my mind. You seem obsessed with it.
What other country would you rather go to for your medical care? Seems everyone comes here for the best care.
I disagree that we are taking care of the poor, but I believe the Affordable Care Act will go a long way to solve that problem. I believe the reason our health care delivery system is so expensive involves excessive costs unrelated to actual care, insurance profits, and to unethical billing practices motivated by profit.
It should not matter to you where I would choose to relocate. That would be my choice, and it would not be subject to your approval or disaproval, therefore it really should not concern you. Just rest assured that I can think of many countries that I believe are much more civilized than the United States.
We agree something needs to be fixed. We disagree on how. What is law today appears to create a bigger problem. The second post is pretty clear on that issue. I dont have an answer but I appreciate the quality of care we get in the US.
Best of luck to you in your new country of choice, my friend.
I also appreciate the care some of us have access to in the US. However, if the Social Darwinists are successful in legislating their social agenda, then I will not live in the country of my birth any longer, because it will become a place in which I will not live.
The good DR. gave a good description of the issues today and in the future.
She was in tears telling me that her grandson will have to go without his therapy cause they don't have $1200.00 left over after essentials each month. I thought the President said his plan wouldn't leave kids with disabilities to fend for themselves? Seems to me the only ones sitting good with this new Obama Care are the college kids that get to stay on their parents insurance and the ones getting screwed are those on Medicare like me or the young ones with disabilities like my friends grandson.