Voter Supression

phobicsquirrel

Seems to be a trend right now to make people get certain ID's to vote. Is it a tactic being used to stem the vote or to get rid of election fraud? Well considering there is such a small amount if any of it I would lean to saying it's just another tactic. Even Pensylvania came out and said there wasn't any voter fraud problems.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/07/25/157327705/pa-wont-use-voter-fraud-argument-at-hearing-over-id-law

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/pennsylvania-admits-it-no-voter-fraud-problem/2012/07/24/gJQAHNVt6W_blog.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/07/24/pennsylvania-voter-suppression-goes-on-trial-are-the-gop-intentions-pure/

http://rollingout.com/politics/republican-leader-admits-black-voter-suppression-tactics/

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865559565/Fraud-prevention-or-voter-suppression-Voter-ID-battle-heats-up-in-Pennsylvania.html

Vulchor

Another joke and waste of our money, sickening.

Theedge

On the other side you have the "get out the vote" crowd. Why would I want to encourage people to vote? Hopefully those paying attention would vote, and those who are not, don't.

phobicsquirrel

more people voting is a good thing.

Theedge

No offense, but how? I mean, just randomly filling in a vote is good? Don't we at least wish that people are paying a bit of attention to who they are voting for? Or is more just better somehow?

phobicsquirrel

I really doubt that many people that vote really know what they are voting for. I'm still very surprised that so many people think that the president is the one responsible for the economy or passing legislation. I mean the president cannot do either, they can only sign bills and or push for legislation. It is the congress that does the bill passing and is in charge of passing legislation that helps or hurts the economy.

Sure I think people just voting not knowing what they are voting for doesn't help the country, I still think it is a good thing that as many people vote as possible. I mean when MTV did their voting thing last election they got thousands of young people out there, as did the league of Woman's voters. Passing laws that make people get a certain ID just in order to vote is just a huge govt intervention. My parents are retired and they let their driver's license expire so if they lived in these states they would have to go out and deal with the crap just to vote. as an example.

bigjohn125

How can anyone be against some type of voter ID? I think that its very important to prove who you are in order to vote. Why would you be against making sure there is no fraud when it comes to our elections? Fraud from either side.

JDH

I am not against having some sort of verification that someone is legally able to vote. However, it is incumbent on the local government to provide the required ID free of charge to all who need it, because the Poll Tax is illegal. Many elderly citizens who were born here, and who have been voting all their lives are being denied the new ID documents. Students should be allowed to vote where they live, not where they used to live, etc., etc. Additionally, the claims of voter fraud that are the basis of these new laws, so far, have proven to be baseless.

It does appear to me that most of these laws were passed by newly elected Teapublicans, and when I hear State officials declare that the new voter ID laws will ensure a win for any one candidate, I get REALLY suspicious. I am affraid that we may see widespread instances of voter disenfranchisement, mostly aimed at Democrats, in this next election.

That's not how our system of government is supposed to work

fla-gypsy

I support real identification to vote. I am tired of the dead and illegals voting in my state. You can call that, or me any silly name you want and I don't give a damn!

kuzi16

just a thought...
i wonder what percentage of the population over the age of 18 currently has some form of legal/state issued ID.
i wonder what percentage of the population over the age of 18 is legitimately registered to vote.

i wonder what a Venn Diagram of these two groups would look like.


not drawing any conclusions on this one quite yet. verdict isnt in.

some interesting thoughts so far.

bigjohn125

JDH:

I am not against having some sort of verification that someone is legally able to vote. However, it is incumbent on the local government to provide the required ID free of charge to all who need it, because the Poll Tax is illegal. Many elderly citizens who were born here, and who have been voting all their lives are being denied the new ID documents. Students should be allowed to vote where they live, not where they used to live, etc., etc. Additionally, the claims of voter fraud that are the basis of these new laws, so far, have proven to be baseless.

It does appear to me that most of these laws were passed by newly elected Teapublicans, and when I hear State officials declare that the new voter ID laws will ensure a win for any one candidate, I get REALLY suspicious. I am affraid that we may see widespread instances of voter disenfranchisement, mostly aimed at Democrats, in this next election.

That's not how our system of government is supposed to work

I, too, am agaist a poll tax. All citizens should be able to vote. In iowa, a state ident card only costs $1. I would even agree for taxpayer dollars to be used for this (can't believe I just said that). I do think there is/ has been voter fraud, and that's also not how our system of government is supposed to work, either.

JDH

bigjohn125:

How can anyone be against some type of voter ID? I think that its very important to prove who you are in order to vote. Why would you be against making sure there is no fraud when it comes to our elections? Fraud from either side.

Suppose you are 85 years old, have been a regular voter all your life, but do not drive, and have no drivers license, and live 40 or 50 miles away from the local government office where you are supposed to get your ID? People like this are being discouraged from obtaining the required document that will allow them to vote. There are WWII vets who have been "purged" from the voter roles. It looks to me as if the implementation of these new voter restrictions is more about partisian politics than about preventing voter fraud.

The fact that the Teapublicans have made the defeat of President Obama their #1 goal cannot be overlooked. I suspect that there may be an organized effort to prevent Democrats from voting, just as there was an organized effort to prevent blacks from voting during the years of Jim Crow.

Vulchor

fla-gypsy:

I support real identification to vote. I am tired of the dead and illegals voting in my state. You can call that, or me any silly name you want and I don't give a damn!

I live in the same state as you. Could you please provide any solid info to me with regards to how many dead or illegals are voting? Im curious as to how serious of an issue this is that you can be so tired of it. I am fine with voter ID cards btw, I am just baffled at the idea this is such a problem and would like some proof its more than some goof being dumb. Also, I would like to see any evidence that it happens on the left more than the right, or vice versa. Beacuse everything Ive read and heard is that ir happens very rarely and about equally on both sides-----so what are we wasting the time, money, and conversation on?

Vulchor

Your exactly right about your stance JDH, I mean here in FL it was done in such a way that courts had to step in to stop the purge....being done illegaly actually due to its timeframe before an election.

james40

JDH:

bigjohn125:

How can anyone be against some type of voter ID? I think that its very important to prove who you are in order to vote. Why would you be against making sure there is no fraud when it comes to our elections? Fraud from either side.

Suppose you are 85 years old, have been a regular voter all your life, but do not drive, and have no drivers license, and live 40 or 50 miles away from the local government office where you are supposed to get your ID? People like this are being discouraged from obtaining the required document that will allow them to vote. There are WWII vets who have been "purged" from the voter roles. It looks to me as if the implementation of these new voter restrictions is more about partisian politics than about preventing voter fraud.

The fact that the Teapublicans have made the defeat of President Obama their #1 goal cannot be overlooked. I suspect that there may be an organized effort to prevent Democrats from voting, just as there was an organized effort to prevent blacks from voting during the years of Jim Crow.

are they not allowed to vote by absentee ballot, like every other citizen in the United States?

0patience

james40:

are they not allowed to vote by absentee ballot, like every other citizen in the United States?

Actually, 16 states require verifiable proof of a reason to vote by absentee ballot. A lot of those are not granted that privilege, so no, not every citizen can vote by absentee ballot.

0patience

Vulchor:

fla-gypsy:

I support real identification to vote. I am tired of the dead and illegals voting in my state. You can call that, or me any silly name you want and I don't give a damn!

I live in the same state as you. Could you please provide any solid info to me with regards to how many dead or illegals are voting? Im curious as to how serious of an issue this is that you can be so tired of it. I am fine with voter ID cards btw, I am just baffled at the idea this is such a problem and would like some proof its more than some goof being dumb. Also, I would like to see any evidence that it happens on the left more than the right, or vice versa. Beacuse everything Ive read and heard is that ir happens very rarely and about equally on both sides-----so what are we wasting the time, money, and conversation on?

Here is some info on Florida. Take it for what it's worth. Pretty much nothing.

A study conducted by the Florida Sun Sentinel in late October 2008 found:
More than 65,000 ineligible and duplicate voters on Florida's registration rolls.
600 dead people on the list.
32,000 multiply-registered voters.
More than 33,000 convicted felons who should not be eligible to vote.
In the final five weeks before voter registration closed Oct. 6, Florida added more than 2,600 ineligible felons to the rolls.

beatnic

Hmm. Don't you have to prove who you are when you sign up for Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, free cell phones, or any other type of government assistance. What if that older woman who lives miles from nowhere wanted to attend an Obama rally? "ID please"? ... Not.

And no voter fraud? Give me a break. People are getting applications for their pets. And being bused all around their areas and vote multiple times, protected by the justice department, oops, I mean the New Black Panther Party. Turn off NBC guys! Here in New Orleans, the home of Acorn, it is open and blatant. Don't tell me it doesn't exist.
JMO

webmost

bigjohn125:

The fact that the Teapublicans have made the defeat of President Obama their #1 goal cannot be overlooked. I suspect that there may be an organized effort to prevent Democrats from voting, just as there was an organized effort to prevent blacks from voting during the years of Jim Crow.

This is neither a Republican thing nor is it anything to do with that arm of the Republican party which suggests taxes are not the answer to our budgetary problems. The very Jim Crow laws you mention were invented by Dixiecrats to perpetuate their control over blacks in the South. And it worked perfectly for a hundred years. Every single governor and nearly every senator and representative from the deep South was a Democrat for a hundred some years, from after Reconstruction until Johnson. The last KKK member in the senate, Byrd from Virginia, was a Democrat. Johnson and Kennedy, you may not remember, were elected by massive voter fraud in a squeaker. In Texas, there were thousands of dead people voted for them, while in Chicago many thousands voted multiple times. Nixon's sycophants urged him to take that election to court, but he said no, that would be bad for the country. I'll have my chance another time. That's right, took the high road.

Look. Every corrupt political machine you can think of, from Tammany Hall to Teamsters has been a Democrat stalwart. So neither voting fraud nor voter suppression are a Tea Party idea. Don't paint me in either party just for citing history. Not saying the other guys are better. I deplore the two party system, whereby the party of outs always has a vested interest in things getting worse. I'm just telling you what happened, from way back before the Tea Party was anything more than a curious event in Boston Harbor. Voter suppression and voter fraud have always been Democrat practice.

History is mostly forgotten at convenience.

JDH

"...The very Jim Crow laws you mention were invented by Dixiecrats to perpetuate their control over blacks in the South. And it worked perfectly for a hundred years. Every single governor and nearly every senator and representative from the deep South was a Democrat for a hundred some years, from after Reconstruction until Johnson. The last KKK member in the senate, Byrd from Virginia, was a Democrat. ..."

Yes, they were conservative, segregationist, racist, Dixie Rats. Some of them even supported a political movement to secede from the USA, again, led by Strom Thurmond and George Wallace. When LBJ signed the Voter Rights Act of 1964 he said that the Democrat party had "just lost the South", and he was right. Richard Nixon also recognized the truth of that sentiment, and it was his "Southern strategy" which used the basic conservatism of the south to convert it into a bastion of conservative Republicanism. That is the base of the Teapublican Party now.

Lee.mcglynn

IMHO there is not much voting is really going to do...it seems to be whome ever wins the electoral votes wins. Does my vote count? I really don't feel like it!!

Vulchor

0patience:

Vulchor:

fla-gypsy:

I support real identification to vote. I am tired of the dead and illegals voting in my state. You can call that, or me any silly name you want and I don't give a damn!

I live in the same state as you. Could you please provide any solid info to me with regards to how many dead or illegals are voting? Im curious as to how serious of an issue this is that you can be so tired of it. I am fine with voter ID cards btw, I am just baffled at the idea this is such a problem and would like some proof its more than some goof being dumb. Also, I would like to see any evidence that it happens on the left more than the right, or vice versa. Beacuse everything Ive read and heard is that ir happens very rarely and about equally on both sides-----so what are we wasting the time, money, and conversation on?

Here is some info on Florida. Take it for what it's worth. Pretty much nothing.

A study conducted by the Florida Sun Sentinel in late October 2008 found:
More than 65,000 ineligible and duplicate voters on Florida's registration rolls.
600 dead people on the list.
32,000 multiply-registered voters.
More than 33,000 convicted felons who should not be eligible to vote.
In the final five weeks before voter registration closed Oct. 6, Florida added more than 2,600 ineligible felons to the rolls.

Thanks for the info, and Im suprised by those high numbers. While rolls do need to be cleaned for time, money, and safety----I agree with these.....I am more interested in how many of those incorrectly on the list in some way actually tried to vote or vote multiple times? I am guessing its very low. Again, we may never know this...thanks though for the info.

phobicsquirrel

Seems as though the judge hearing the PA case over the voter ID law sort of deferred back the lawmakers allowing the law to stand. Sort of really puts in perspective on the goals of the GOP. Here's a video of one lawmaker on the law .... http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/karoli/shameless-republican-brags-about-voter-id-w

xmacro

This is rather amusing; the DOJ argues for Obamacare that the courts should defer to the legislature. For voter reform, the DOJ argues they should not defer to the legislature, lol

FWIW, the judge didn't rule on the law, he just denied the ACLU's attempt to block it pending further appeals, the main reason being these are all the ways that someone can get an ID to vote:

- Drivers license
- Passport
- MIlitary ID
- Federal Gov't ID
- Student ID
- State will provide a free ID to anyone who signs an affirmation that they need it to vote; only requirement is a SS # and two proofs of residence

phobicsquirrel

I didn't say the judge ruled on the law, he didn't. They are clearly trying to keep people from voting because they know a lot more people who would be affected by this vote democratic, it's very simple, especially since PA leans democratic. PA isn't the only state doing this, Ohio even is closing voting areas much earlier that lean democratic than districts that vote Republican.

phobicsquirrel

Approximately half of Pennsylvania's counties have no photo ID center, or have a center that is only open one to two days per week. And the Commonwealth admitted to having no plan in place for issuing anywhere close to 760,000 photo ID cards to cover voters who need one - or close to even 10,000 cards.

Furthermore, the Commonwealth has not even adequately informed the public. Independent survey research showed that 34 percent of registered Pennsylvania voters were unaware of the voter ID law. Another 12 percent of registered voters believed that they had a valid voter ID, but they didn't.

I like this question -
How much will it cost me to get a Photo Identification Card in order to vote?

Nothing. It’s free. (But getting a certified copy of your birth certificate will cost you $10 if you were born in Pennsylvania or more if you were born elsewhere.)

JDH

It is easier and cheaper to get a US passport than a Pensylvania voter ID card. This is nothing more than a new form of Jim Crow, this time it's just aimed at Democrats of all colors instead of just black ones.

beatnic

I'm having trouble believing that in this day and age that anyone in the United States doesn't have an ID, or easy access to getting one. Come on down to New Orleans on election day and watch the buses of voters being shuttled around. Its' impressive. I'm thinking that if the myriad number of caring, loving, helping, protesting liberal groups who do these things could just as easily spend their efforts to helping these people to get an ID. What about the fricken DNC? Acorn? They spend millions getting people and pets registered and to the poles, but absolutely nothing on helping these undocumented people get an ID.

Fritz the Cat

Imagine what the numbers are here in Illinois! I laugh when folks say that having to present some form of ID to vote is suppression. You cannot get electricity, gas, phone, water to your home without some form of ID, cant drive, fly, rent a car without ID. Can't open a bank account without, cant buy a car without, cant cash a check without.....I'm trying to figure out what form of ID do people have to present to get food stamps and welfare payments, if you cant prove who you are then how do i know you deserve something? We all suck, what a mess this place is in.

beatnic

Another thing. Why don't we hear that black republicans, hispanic republicans, and poor republicans have the same issue. Its' not about color, no matter how often you say it. Its' about proving you are a citizen. Did you just read that 50,000 undocumented hispanics showed up in Chicago the other day for big O's amnesty program? Imagine how many of them voted last time because they were just able to sign a registration card without proof of citizenship.
Perhaps we should follow the lead of these other democratic countries that have voting and have everyone dip their finger into purple ink. At lease we know that they don't double vote.
Our election process is the only way that we as citizens can keep a check on our leaders. Keep the safeguards. If you know someone who doesn't have an ID, help them get one. Now thats American!!!!!!!!!!!

catfishbluezz

If you can't figure out how to get an ID, probably shouldn't be voting anyways.... Its not voter suppression when it is honest politics. Maybe the motives aren't, but the result is.