Sometimes I think claims like that are similiar to what we get from the DEA. They take out a guy growing a couple plants of weed, and say it was 20lbs, or 100 plants were 10 million dollars worth of narcotics. I'm not saying there couldn't be 80% of the cubans fake in Canada, but if that were true, then you think it would be elsewhere as well. Obviously there are a ton of fakes, but I just don't see experienced smokers getting burned consistently for a long period of time.
I remember a couple of years ago I reported seeing a CBC Fifth Estate program about counterfeit CC's. In the program they reported that up to 80% of the Cuban cigars in Canada are fake. If they are legal here and we get that many fakes... the odds are good that most of the CC's in the US market are also fake.
There are a ton of dealers out there selling CC's and willing to ship to US addresses. Makes me wonder.
Just to clarify...is this in response to my post or a general comment. Because I'm pretty confident that I have not been buying counterfeit cigars, I do my homework and buy from trusted sources.
Sorry for the delay in response Joe. This is a general comment which I hoped would add to the discussion. However except for your comment nobody else seemed to even notice it.
If the report I saw is accurate however then it means you, me and likely everybody else who thought they were getting Cubans weren't, at least at sometime in your purchasing history.
It's funny in a way because I think that the reaction I got from that statement is pretty normal... one person (you in this case) takes it in a way that seesm to upset them. Others just ignore it was even said because then they don't have to deal with it. The bury your head in the sand tactic, which the sheeple of the world are doing quite a lot of these days.
In any case Joe, I was NOT saying you buy fake Cuban cigars. The report that I watched says that 80% of the Cuban cigars in the Canadian market are fake, If we have that level of fakes here and they are legal...
Gotcha. It would piss me off to no end if I somehow found that I'd been buying fakes all along. Earlier on in my foray into Cubans, I would say it is more likely that I'd have run across a box of fakes, but now I do my homework and buy from sources that are trusted by a large segment of the cigar community...that doesn't mean they can't be counterfeit, but I like my chances. I've seen articles where people talk about the number of fakes compared to the number of authentic Cubans in the US, but what I want to know is how do they determine these numbers. I think Steve Saka of Drew Estates wrote an article to that effect, and it seems to me like he's pulling information out of his ass, but he's a respected industry guy so people take his word as gold.
I can absolutely confirm that I've bought fakes once...in Mexico, from a vendor who sold me a glass top, five count box of "Cohiba" robustos. At that time, I had smoked one cigar in my life, and boy were those "cubans" good. haha
From my understanding of the program, the level that these things are being faked on is so high that the companies who are buying them as Cubans to resell are also being csrewed over. They are selling what they think are true Cubans and would be just as pissed to find out they weren't as you would be Joe.
This bugged me for a long time and then I realized how wrong I was being about the whole thing. In my mind if I light up a cigar and I really enjoy it, except for wanting to know what it is so I can secure more, I could care less where it was grown. dried, cured rolled or sold from. REALLY! I just want to enjoy the cigar. That lead me to the realization that it is NOT the price of a Cuban cigar that makes it good, but it IS what the retailers get away with and the cigars do have that kind of aura about them.
As with so many things in life we are prone to be lead where we really wanted to go in the first place. If Cuban cigars had been available all this time in the US then they would not enjoy the status that they do now. The fact that they have been illegal has lead them to legendary status, in the US and that has lead to higher demand and therefore higher prices. Unfortunaltely it also leads to opportunity for making some serious cash for criminals and just as with guns, or drugs... the money IS being made, and at a very high level. Not just a few tools trying to take advantage of uneducated tourists. This sounded like it was very organized.
Sometimes I think claims like that are similiar to what we get from the DEA. They take out a guy growing a couple plants of weed, and say it was 20lbs, or 100 plants were 10 million dollars worth of narcotics. I'm not saying there couldn't be 80% of the cubans fake in Canada, but if that were true, then you think it would be elsewhere as well. Obviously there are a ton of fakes, but I just don't see experienced smokers getting burned consistently for a long period of time.
LOL, well. while I don't disagree about the cops and making statements that bolster claims they make. This was a CBC News Doc. that spent a lot of time doing the investigation and the CBC is NOT a trash rag or whatever they are very respected around the world for the documentaries that they produce.
What makes you think that the 80% isn't in other jurisdictions as well? The CBC did this investigation not the government. Has anyone in the US done a similar study? Probably not considering they would be investigating an illegal product so therefore wouldn't expect a lot of data to be there in the first place. If nobody is looking then they won't likely find anything
As for long time smokers NOT being tricked by fakes for so long? How would you know if you have been smoking nothing but fakes from the start?
I DID NOT say these things either. They were part of a documentary CBC did a few years ago. I would also add here thet my opinion on this matter is that the 80% number includes sticks which would be considered Cuban but are still fakes. In that I mean the ingredients used to make the cigar were all Cuban, but the rollers used were NOT company rollers. The boxes and labels may be reproductions, and the sticks were produced NOT in the company factory they claim to be made in. These are Cuban cigars... but they are also fakes. This is what I consider the largest part of the fake market, the not authentic cigars from Cuba.
Well, I guess whatever the case turns out to be, there's not much a lowly consumer like me can do about it. I haven't bought branded Cuban cigars for several months now, there really aren't many that are worth my money. I was hot on Cubans for a while, and I still think the tobacco is fantastic, but until HSA gets there sh*t together I'll spend my money elsewhere...screw cigars, I'll just spend my $$ on pipe tobacco.
Sometimes I think claims like that are similiar to what we get from the DEA. They take out a guy growing a couple plants of weed, and say it was 20lbs, or 100 plants were 10 million dollars worth of narcotics. I'm not saying there couldn't be 80% of the cubans fake in Canada, but if that were true, then you think it would be elsewhere as well. Obviously there are a ton of fakes, but I just don't see experienced smokers getting burned consistently for a long period of time.
LOL, well. while I don't disagree about the cops and making statements that bolster claims they make. This was a CBC News Doc. that spent a lot of time doing the investigation and the CBC is NOT a trash rag or whatever they are very respected around the world for the documentaries that they produce.
What makes you think that the 80% isn't in other jurisdictions as well? The CBC did this investigation not the government. Has anyone in the US done a similar study? Probably not considering they would be investigating an illegal product so therefore wouldn't expect a lot of data to be there in the first place. If nobody is looking then they won't likely find anything
As for long time smokers NOT being tricked by fakes for so long? How would you know if you have been smoking nothing but fakes from the start?
I DID NOT say these things either. They were part of a documentary CBC did a few years ago. I would also add here thet my opinion on this matter is that the 80% number includes sticks which would be considered Cuban but are still fakes. In that I mean the ingredients used to make the cigar were all Cuban, but the rollers used were NOT company rollers. The boxes and labels may be reproductions, and the sticks were produced NOT in the company factory they claim to be made in. These are Cuban cigars... but they are also fakes. This is what I consider the largest part of the fake market, the not authentic cigars from Cuba.
I hear ya, I jsut think that if it was that rampant, then they are pretty much saying all cubans are fake, which would make no sense to me for a country that it is legal to sell them. I jsut find it hard to believe that we've been tricked all along and that possibly they are cuban, but not "real" cuban, and that there is somehow this special cuban stash that only a small minority of the world enjoys. I understand counterfeiting is a huge business, but the consumer for that market is uneducated. I am very uneducated when it coems to them, yet I have a large stash, and I know where the resources are when need be.
Maybe it is just me....but I just can't see some large conspiracy to pull off fake cuban puro's that are real cuban puro's, aimed at tricking the cuban puro customer into buying a $7 cigar while the real $7 cigar is unobtainable. That would be bad business, and as HSA, I would want that shut down immediately. Outside of the uneducated tourist consumer, I just don't see it and I don't see the market outside of say cohiba and monte.
Sometimes I think claims like that are similiar to what we get from the DEA. They take out a guy growing a couple plants of weed, and say it was 20lbs, or 100 plants were 10 million dollars worth of narcotics. I'm not saying there couldn't be 80% of the cubans fake in Canada, but if that were true, then you think it would be elsewhere as well. Obviously there are a ton of fakes, but I just don't see experienced smokers getting burned consistently for a long period of time.
LOL, well. while I don't disagree about the cops and making statements that bolster claims they make. This was a CBC News Doc. that spent a lot of time doing the investigation and the CBC is NOT a trash rag or whatever they are very respected around the world for the documentaries that they produce.
What makes you think that the 80% isn't in other jurisdictions as well? The CBC did this investigation not the government. Has anyone in the US done a similar study? Probably not considering they would be investigating an illegal product so therefore wouldn't expect a lot of data to be there in the first place. If nobody is looking then they won't likely find anything
As for long time smokers NOT being tricked by fakes for so long? How would you know if you have been smoking nothing but fakes from the start?
I DID NOT say these things either. They were part of a documentary CBC did a few years ago. I would also add here thet my opinion on this matter is that the 80% number includes sticks which would be considered Cuban but are still fakes. In that I mean the ingredients used to make the cigar were all Cuban, but the rollers used were NOT company rollers. The boxes and labels may be reproductions, and the sticks were produced NOT in the company factory they claim to be made in. These are Cuban cigars... but they are also fakes. This is what I consider the largest part of the fake market, the not authentic cigars from Cuba.
I hear ya, I jsut think that if it was that rampant, then they are pretty much saying all cubans are fake, which would make no sense to me for a country that it is legal to sell them. I jsut find it hard to believe that we've been tricked all along and that possibly they are cuban, but not "real" cuban, and that there is somehow this special cuban stash that only a small minority of the world enjoys. I understand counterfeiting is a huge business, but the consumer for that market is uneducated. I am very uneducated when it coems to them, yet I have a large stash, and I know where the resources are when need be.
Maybe it is just me....but I just can't see some large conspiracy to pull off fake cuban puro's that are real cuban puro's, aimed at tricking the cuban puro customer into buying a $7 cigar while the real $7 cigar is unobtainable. That would be bad business, and as HSA, I would want that shut down immediately. Outside of the uneducated tourist consumer, I just don't see it and I don't see the market outside of say cohiba and monte.
Could be. As for the $7 Cuban... try finding that in Canada. It will cost you $30 easy. It is the inflated price and an eager market that makes it a very desirable market for counterfeits. I wonder where all the Cubans in the US come from? There are as many or more there then here. Could it be the fakes are brought here legally and then brought into the states from here? I don't know, but there sure seem to be a lot of places selling Cubans in the US and that fly's in the face of the embargo. Iwonder why the ATF hasn't stopped any of these sellers? I have said it before, I enjoy a cigar for what it brings me. I am not impressed with where it came from or how much it cost. I just want to enjoy the damned thing.
Would it not also be possible that more "legitimate"producers pop up to meet demand in the newly opened US market? Some mentioned more fakes popping up, but if there's already so many.... All the big names left Cuba to continue producing cigars in other countries, what if they could muscle back into Cuba to open up shop?
if prices did shoot up, I bet it'd be temporary. I do not know what others are willing to pay, but if I couldn't get a legal Cuban for a comparable price to a equal quality Nic or Dom, then I'd probably pass..
it would be very neat to see how Cuban tobacco could be incorporated into ther blends.
I'm just tossing around thoughts, but I doubt it'll happen soon
Comments
This bugged me for a long time and then I realized how wrong I was being about the whole thing. In my mind if I light up a cigar and I really enjoy it, except for wanting to know what it is so I can secure more, I could care less where it was grown. dried, cured rolled or sold from. REALLY! I just want to enjoy the cigar. That lead me to the realization that it is NOT the price of a Cuban cigar that makes it good, but it IS what the retailers get away with and the cigars do have that kind of aura about them.
As with so many things in life we are prone to be lead where we really wanted to go in the first place. If Cuban cigars had been available all this time in the US then they would not enjoy the status that they do now. The fact that they have been illegal has lead them to legendary status, in the US and that has lead to higher demand and therefore higher prices. Unfortunaltely it also leads to opportunity for making some serious cash for criminals and just as with guns, or drugs... the money IS being made, and at a very high level. Not just a few tools trying to take advantage of uneducated tourists. This sounded like it was very organized.
What makes you think that the 80% isn't in other jurisdictions as well? The CBC did this investigation not the government. Has anyone in the US done a similar study? Probably not considering they would be investigating an illegal product so therefore wouldn't expect a lot of data to be there in the first place. If nobody is looking then they won't likely find anything
As for long time smokers NOT being tricked by fakes for so long? How would you know if you have been smoking nothing but fakes from the start?
I DID NOT say these things either. They were part of a documentary CBC did a few years ago. I would also add here thet my opinion on this matter is that the 80% number includes sticks which would be considered Cuban but are still fakes. In that I mean the ingredients used to make the cigar were all Cuban, but the rollers used were NOT company rollers. The boxes and labels may be reproductions, and the sticks were produced NOT in the company factory they claim to be made in. These are Cuban cigars... but they are also fakes. This is what I consider the largest part of the fake market, the not authentic cigars from Cuba.
Maybe it is just me....but I just can't see some large conspiracy to pull off fake cuban puro's that are real cuban puro's, aimed at tricking the cuban puro customer into buying a $7 cigar while the real $7 cigar is unobtainable. That would be bad business, and as HSA, I would want that shut down immediately. Outside of the uneducated tourist consumer, I just don't see it and I don't see the market outside of say cohiba and monte.
if prices did shoot up, I bet it'd be temporary. I do not know what others are willing to pay, but if I couldn't get a legal Cuban for a comparable price to a equal quality Nic or Dom, then I'd probably pass..
it would be very neat to see how Cuban tobacco could be incorporated into ther blends.
I'm just tossing around thoughts, but I doubt it'll happen soon