Afgan Woman Killed

Vulchor

So seeing this Afgan broad killed in the street for "adultery" (likely rape), begs me to again ask the question...Why?--------and also state my opinion......

These people are savages living thousands of years behind civil society. We should not be fighting for them or over them, we should put them down or let them kill themselves. They are savages and animals and we are wasting money and worthwhile lives to "help" them. And for the ones there who are good and deserve help...sorry, sucks for you...but we dont want to be involved any more.

kuzi16

saw that video earlier today. it is seriously messed up.

Ken Light

Wasn't even rape, what I heard was two officers had a dispute over her and killed her to end it. Then their superior killed both of them. My wife was aghast, I said "good, let them kill themselves."

So I'd like to agree with you. Problem is, these savages don't shoot guns or throw spears, they have the ability to use nuclear weapons. So we can't just leave them alone to wipe themselves out, they're too likely to take us out with them, or at the very least completely destroy a resource-rich land.

rzaman

Usually I do not participate to any topics without cigar related but this one caught my attention because this is my work related issue. I can see people say a lot of thing about our international relation and overall affairs with misconception. I joined with International relation and development almost 15 years ago with a lot of passion, ideology and dream to save the world. The reality is, nothing in this world is without any interest- specially in foreign affairs. It is all about political and economic interest. We have interest and that is why we are there more than 10 years and will remain there. Is this our public interest? Most probably not but it is our national interest. We live in a world within two worlds- the visual world and the underground world. The governments are active in both and the general public see and live in the visual world. The world is not fair, it was never been. Our government is not perfect but maintaining the superiority of a country decades after decades is a very challenging job. I know that I am not clear but that underground world is not clear in reality and will remain unclear to the public as always.

Now back to the topic. The above incident is not related to our involvement and interest in Afghanistan. Do we really care? no. Our interest lie in other things. That's all I can say.

RBeckom

I personally do not like to hear of murder be it anyone.
If we condone murder I fear that we are no better than the ones doing the vile act.
One needs only to think of our loved ones and to remember that everyone is loved by someone.
Murder my friends is not A noble act, indeed quiet the opposite is true.
Hold the guilty accountable but take no pleasure in having to condemn A fellow man.
Just the thoughts of A simple country man.

rzaman

I understand your view on this and agree with it but it does"t change the fact that the above incident will be ignored for the so-called greater political and economic interests of the involved political powers in that region. We live in a very difficult world where right and wrong are mesured by interest not by ideology.

RBeckom:

I personally do not like to hear of murder be it anyone.
If we condone murder I fear that we are no better than the ones doing the vile act.
One needs only to think of our loved ones and to remember that everyone is loved by someone.
Murder my friends is not A noble act, indeed quiet the opposite is true.
Hold the guilty accountable but take no pleasure in having to condemn A fellow man.
Just the thoughts of A simple country man.

Vulchor

Very true RZ......I break it down even further that it is ALWAYS about money, and solely about money. Not left or right, not right or wrong, just about profit. But I digress.

Amos Umwhat

Vulchor:

Very true RZ......I break it down even further that it is ALWAYS about money, and solely about money. Not left or right, not right or wrong, just about profit. But I digress.

This made me think about some of the discussions we have here. Many of us are interested in the intrinsic "right" or "wrong" about the subject. Some are more interested simply in the legal/illegal dichotomy. Perhaps this is much of what's wrong with government in general, not enough ethical consideration, too much "what's in it for me". What a sad state of affairs.

Vulchor

Agreed 100% Amos.

FNA

"They are savages and animals"

You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad".

"we should put them down"

I bet you believe in Jesus too.

Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

JDH

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

Hatred, for whatever reason, is pretty damned uglly.

RBeckom

rzaman:

I understand your view on this and agree with it but it does"t change the fact that the above incident will be ignored for the so-called greater political and economic interests of the involved political powers in that region. We live in a very difficult world where right and wrong are mesured by interest not by ideology.

RBeckom:

I personally do not like to hear of murder be it anyone.
If we condone murder I fear that we are no better than the ones doing the vile act.
One needs only to think of our loved ones and to remember that everyone is loved by someone.
Murder my friends is not A noble act, indeed quiet the opposite is true.
Hold the guilty accountable but take no pleasure in having to condemn A fellow man.
Just the thoughts of A simple country man.

Sad but true.

RBeckom

Vulchor:

Very true RZ......I break it down even further that it is ALWAYS about money, and solely about money. Not left or right, not right or wrong, just about profit. But I digress.

It does seem to be the norm in today's world.

RBeckom

Amos Umwhat:

Vulchor:

Very true RZ......I break it down even further that it is ALWAYS about money, and solely about money. Not left or right, not right or wrong, just about profit. But I digress.

This made me think about some of the discussions we have here. Many of us are interested in the intrinsic "right" or "wrong" about the subject. Some are more interested simply in the legal/illegal dichotomy. Perhaps this is much of what's wrong with government in general, not enough ethical consideration, too much "what's in it for me". What a sad state of affairs.

That about says it all in A nutshell.

RBeckom

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

??????????


Are you saying that it is wrong to care about our fellow man?


If so then I strongly disagree!

rzaman

???...you believe in Jesus and at the same time call his creation as animals and put them down? What is the difference between you and them then?

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

Vulchor

You are free to your opinion FNA... and while mine was said partially tongue in cheek, I think most guys who know me here understand the prmise behind my harsh words. As for your opinions, you may be entitled to them but they are nearly incoherent and a little mean spirited. If you dont like it here, dont come----or stay off this topic, dont just post for the sake of posting. And no, again if you knew me or this site at all you would know that I am not a "Jesus guy", I consider myself a nice person but no Jesus for me------but thanks for trying to pretend like you know my feelings or me in any way.

Amos Umwhat

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

Interesting. You select opinions from certain individuals that represent only one side of an issue, then blame us all with "I seldom come to this site", and also seemingly apply an extremely narrow-minded bigotry against a small element of people who misunderstand the words of Jesus in such a way as to approve of their own bigotries. Seems more than a little self-righteous and pompous, doesn't it?

You're welcome to stay wherever you usually hang out.
.

Vulchor

And as I look through your entire 8 posts here FNA, I can see that more than one of them is just you being a d!ck.....or stating your opinion I guess would be how you phrased it. Well cheers to you my good man, see you for another post of misery in a short while.

Gaetano7890

I think this is a sarcastic post and he means it that this stuff happens in the us and Europe. Whether I agree or disagree with your view I still respect it. If you dont like visiting the site don't that what I love about this country you have a choice but don't just post negative things and then bash the site.

RBeckom

FNA.
I still await your answer to my question.
I would love to continue this conversation, not to belittle you in any way, more to better understand you and your beliefs.
I harbor no animosity towards you, I just want to understand you.


Feel free to PM me.

Rhamlin

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

You haven't been missed.

0patience

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

It's interesting. A lot of your posts have been argumentative or condescending.
If you do not like this site, then why post here?
You strike me as someone who isn't happy with their life, so you find your joy in arguing or attempting to "talk down" to folks.

Everyone has different views on things, but that doesn't mean they are wrong, nor does it mean you are correct.

I stayed away from the subject of this thread, because I don't know enough about it or the people involved.
But many of your posts seem to harbor some animosity towards the people of this forum and I don't understand that.

Streater

Islam is a very young religion, roughly 1500 years old. They are still working out the kinks and bugs in it. What were Christians doing in the 1500s? That's right. It was one of the most barbaric times in world history. All in the name of Jesus. *** Now try and get "The Inquisition" scene from Monty Python's "History of the World Part 1" out of your head.***

Don't get me wrong. I understand that the real reasons for the Conquests and Inquisitions were greed and megalomania, but it took the Christian/Catholic Church having to go through this period of absolute evil for the followers to understand that they were being led by people not of God .

I throw out knee-jerk comments like "Animals" and "Savages" when I hear about Sharia Law. I know I'm wrong to judge, and usually feel like a moron a few minutes later when my blood cools down. The fact still remains that the people that perform these atrocities are not behaving like civilized human beings. If people like this are given power, we will see another Holocaust the likes Adolph Hitler would think barbaric.

That is why I believe that The United States and her allies should remain an occupying force in The Middle East If history has taught us anything, its that we cannot allow people that would justify these horrible acts by saying that it is the will of God, to ever seize power. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist or even The Flying F-ing Spaghetti Monster.

rzaman

Your analysis is very interesting and full of facts, thanks. However, I disagree with the occupying part. I would like to raise some concern- Is it wise to save the world when we have such a huge budget deficit? Is it worth for our future generation leave them with such a political burden? My last question would be, do we really have a plan why we are there? The answer is no. Every country has responsibility to take care of their own citizen first before anything else unless we have good stocks with oil and defense companies. However, I enjoyed your analysis about the religious part. Still, I can't justify our occupation when our best buddies are the non-democratic royal family members around the Middle-East and at the same time we talk about promoting democracy. Again, thanks for your thoughtful post with facts.

Streater:

Islam is a very young religion, roughly 1500 years old. They are still working out the kinks and bugs in it. What were Christians doing in the 1500s? That's right. It was one of the most barbaric times in world history. All in the name of Jesus. *** Now try and get "The Inquisition" scene from Monty Python's "History of the World Part 1" out of your head.***

Don't get me wrong. I understand that the real reasons for the Conquests and Inquisitions were greed and megalomania, but it took the Christian/Catholic Church having to go through this period of absolute evil for the followers to understand that they were being led by people not of God .

I throw out knee-jerk comments like "Animals" and "Savages" when I hear about Sharia Law. I know I'm wrong to judge, and usually feel like a moron a few minutes later when my blood cools down. The fact still remains that the people that perform these atrocities are not behaving like civilized human beings. If people like this are given power, we will see another Holocaust the likes Adolph Hitler would think barbaric.

That is why I believe that The United States and her allies should remain an occupying force in The Middle East If history has taught us anything, its that we cannot allow people that would justify these horrible acts by saying that it is the will of God, to ever seize power. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist or even The Flying F-ing Spaghetti Monster.

JDH

rzaman:

Your analysis is very interesting and full of facts, thanks. However, I disagree with the occupying part. I would like to raise some concern- Is it wise to save the world when we have such a huge budget deficit? Is it worth for our future generation leave them with such a political burden? My last question would be, do we really have a plan why we are there? The answer is no. Every country has responsibility to take care of their own citizen first before anything else unless we have good stocks with oil and defense companies. However, I enjoyed your analysis about the religious part. Still, I can't justify our occupation when our best buddies are the non-democratic royal family members around the Middle-East and at the same time we talk about promoting democracy. Again, thanks for your thoughtful post with facts.

Streater:

Islam is a very young religion, roughly 1500 years old. They are still working out the kinks and bugs in it. What were Christians doing in the 1500s? That's right. It was one of the most barbaric times in world history. All in the name of Jesus. *** Now try and get "The Inquisition" scene from Monty Python's "History of the World Part 1" out of your head.***

Don't get me wrong. I understand that the real reasons for the Conquests and Inquisitions were greed and megalomania, but it took the Christian/Catholic Church having to go through this period of absolute evil for the followers to understand that they were being led by people not of God .

I throw out knee-jerk comments like "Animals" and "Savages" when I hear about Sharia Law. I know I'm wrong to judge, and usually feel like a moron a few minutes later when my blood cools down. The fact still remains that the people that perform these atrocities are not behaving like civilized human beings. If people like this are given power, we will see another Holocaust the likes Adolph Hitler would think barbaric.

That is why I believe that The United States and her allies should remain an occupying force in The Middle East If history has taught us anything, its that we cannot allow people that would justify these horrible acts by saying that it is the will of God, to ever seize power. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist or even The Flying F-ing Spaghetti Monster.

If we are to "remain an occupying force in the Middle East", who in the bloody hell is going to pay for the cost of being an occupuing force? If History has taught us anything, it is that you cannot change human nature. It can be argued that the German People were among the most "civilized" society ever to exist in the 1930's and '40's, and (as you point out) look at the crimes that were committed in their names. In order to do what you are advocating, the US would have to raise a much larger army, and that would require a general draft. I maintain that the general population of the US would not tolerate a draft, or pay the taxes such an occupation would require. And they should not be willing to bear either sacrifices, because the US is not directly threatened by the forces you indicate.

rzaman

Agreed...there are significant ideological differences between the WW2 and the on-going crisis in the Middle-East. During WW2, the goal was clear to stop the German/Japan occupation in Europe, Africa, Asia and beyond, also stop Hitler. Then we came up with the great Marshall plan which helped to rebuilt both Europe and America. Everything was planned and worked because there was a clear vision and we all shared the burden of the cost or a nobel political and economic future. Under current war in the Middle-East and Afghanistan - we do not know who is the real enemy neither have a clear goal. Thanks for your input streater. I will end my conversation here. There is no end of this topic. Have a great cigar day!!!

JDH:

rzaman:

Your analysis is very interesting and full of facts, thanks. However, I disagree with the occupying part. I would like to raise some concern- Is it wise to save the world when we have such a huge budget deficit? Is it worth for our future generation leave them with such a political burden? My last question would be, do we really have a plan why we are there? The answer is no. Every country has responsibility to take care of their own citizen first before anything else unless we have good stocks with oil and defense companies. However, I enjoyed your analysis about the religious part. Still, I can't justify our occupation when our best buddies are the non-democratic royal family members around the Middle-East and at the same time we talk about promoting democracy. Again, thanks for your thoughtful post with facts.

Streater:

Islam is a very young religion, roughly 1500 years old. They are still working out the kinks and bugs in it. What were Christians doing in the 1500s? That's right. It was one of the most barbaric times in world history. All in the name of Jesus. *** Now try and get "The Inquisition" scene from Monty Python's "History of the World Part 1" out of your head.***

Don't get me wrong. I understand that the real reasons for the Conquests and Inquisitions were greed and megalomania, but it took the Christian/Catholic Church having to go through this period of absolute evil for the followers to understand that they were being led by people not of God .

I throw out knee-jerk comments like "Animals" and "Savages" when I hear about Sharia Law. I know I'm wrong to judge, and usually feel like a moron a few minutes later when my blood cools down. The fact still remains that the people that perform these atrocities are not behaving like civilized human beings. If people like this are given power, we will see another Holocaust the likes Adolph Hitler would think barbaric.

That is why I believe that The United States and her allies should remain an occupying force in The Middle East If history has taught us anything, its that we cannot allow people that would justify these horrible acts by saying that it is the will of God, to ever seize power. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, Buddhist or even The Flying F-ing Spaghetti Monster.

If we are to "remain an occupying force in the Middle East", who in the bloody hell is going to pay for the cost of being an occupuing force? If History has taught us anything, it is that you cannot change human nature. It can be argued that the German People were among the most "civilized" society ever to exist in the 1930's and '40's, and (as you point out) look at the crimes that were committed in their names. In order to do what you are advocating, the US would have to raise a much larger army, and that would require a general draft. I maintain that the general population of the US would not tolerate a draft, or pay the taxes such an occupation would require. And they should not be willing to bear either sacrifices, because the US is not directly threatened by the forces you indicate.

Vulchor

The real enemy is, always has been, and always will be whoever threatens out interests. Security wise sure, but economically first and foremost. Do anything to threaten our ability to make a buck, and youre public enemy #1. Convientely, you can often disguise that under the pretense of terror, human rights, "doing whats right", ect. That way you can make a logical discussion into an emotional event and rely on the masses to buy into it.

dennisking

FNA:

"They are savages and animals" You can tell because nobody in Europe or America ever gets murdered for some stupid reason and all women are treated with respect too - not like that "Afghan broad". "we should put them down" I bet you believe in Jesus too. Thanks for reminding why I seldom come to this site.

except Jesus took the adulteress and spared her from stoning by telling the religious leaders to cast the first stone if they were without sin. You need to read more and talk less. Although it's appalling, this stuff happens daily all over the world. Kids murdered and kidnapped to be sex slaves, races wiped out, and all sorts of horrifying stuff. Our way of life is far different than a lot of countries