WE are the government

Lots of folks like to rail against the government on here. I am by no means passing judgments on anyoine's viewpoints or saying that we shouldn't be critical. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. But things seem to get a little vitriolic on here (especially lately) its worthwhile noting that for better or worse, we are the government. If you decide to read this, read it with an open mind.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09098/961267-154.stm

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Luko

oops meant to post this in non-cigar related. Sorry.

phobicsquirrel

You are now fined! the Govt has spoken. Please pay quickly!!!!

havanaal

I resent being compared to an insane cop killer for calling big government what it is: a bureaucratic self perpetuating self serving monster. It is no more "us" than my kids are "me". I want the relationship to work, but at some point the relationship stands to become parasitic if one allows it to become dysfunctional.

iwsmith2

Ahh, the gold old post gazette. This was a horrible thing that happened up here. There were like 5000 Police officers from all over the place at the ceremonies. It took a whole day. But I will say Governments will always be flawed and it is impossible to make everyone happy. We just have to suck it up and deal with it, it is OUR government.

kuzi16

Reg Henry:
Since Mr. Obama was elected, a cottage industry of resentment has sprung up to cater to sore losers. From talk shows hosts who hope the president fails, to others who hint at insurrection, to Web sites that play on crazy fantasies (Barack Obama's a Muslim! He was born in Kenya! He's a Marxist!), the chorus is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater.

what about all those people that wanted Bush dead? what about those that still want to bring him to trial? what about all the democrats that wanted Bush, the war, and everything else that any republican ever brought up to fail? what about the claims that Bush would bring back the draft?

little bit of a double standard here...

and to be fair, Obama is not a Marxist...
hes more of a Fascist...

yes, it is our government. We voted for them. on that note, they arent looking out for us. I will not respect a Government that will not Respect the individual rights of its citizens. I also will not run out and kill a cop because they are pert of the government. just because i dont like the government as it is right this minute does not mean that i am violent. It does mean that i will debate, discuss, and vote my mind every time that i can. I wish to change the government through a free exchange of thoughts, not a free exchange of bullets.

Hillary Clinton said it best:
"I have the right to disagree with this administration or any administration... "
amen to that.

ScottU

When was the last time the government respected us???

phobicsquirrel

kuzi16:
Reg Henry:
Since Mr. Obama was elected, a cottage industry of resentment has sprung up to cater to sore losers. From talk shows hosts who hope the president fails, to others who hint at insurrection, to Web sites that play on crazy fantasies (Barack Obama's a Muslim! He was born in Kenya! He's a Marxist!), the chorus is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater.
what about all those people that wanted Bush dead? what about those that still want to bring him to trial? what about all the democrats that wanted Bush, the war, and everything else that any republican ever brought up to fail? what about the claims that Bush would bring back the draft?

little bit of a double standard here...

and to be fair, Obama is not a Marxist...
hes more of a Fascist...

yes, it is our government. We voted for them. on that note, they arent looking out for us. I will not respect a Government that will not Respect the individual rights of its citizens. I also will not run out and kill a cop because they are pert of the government. just because i dont like the government as it is right this minute does not mean that i am violent. It does mean that i will debate, discuss, and vote my mind every time that i can. I wish to change the government through a free exchange of thoughts, not a free exchange of bullets.

Hillary Clinton said it best:
"I have the right to disagree with this administration or any administration... "
amen to that.

obama a Fascist? so if he's a fascist what is bush?

Vidarien

Oh jesus kuzi, obama is a fascist?

Move this to the non-related forum. I mean come on, im for the fair discussion in the right forum but come on...obama is a fascist just like reagan was a fascist. Both are transformative "heroic" figures within their own party, i didnt call reagan a fascist, i wont call obama one either. Its just a relegation of government prioritiies, one foriegn and one domestic. One built huge defecit spending on bankrupting the soviets, the other did on buiding the country. Let the people judge in 2012, if they like "fascism" then will go back to old FDR style "fascism." And thats as democratic as you can get.

PuroFreak

Vidarien:
Oh jesus kuzi, obama is a fascist?

Move this to the non-related forum. I mean come on, im for the fair discussion in the right forum but come on...obama is a fascist just like reagan was a fascist. Both are transformative "heroic" figures within their own party, i didnt call reagan a fascist, i wont call obama one either. Its just a relegation of government prioritiies, one foriegn and one domestic. One built huge defecit spending on bankrupting the soviets, the other did on buiding the country. Let the people judge in 2012, if they like "fascism" then will go back to old FDR style "fascism." And thats as democratic as you can get.

Oh I don't think we will have to wait until 2012... If we stay on the path we are on now with dumping money into so many black holes and an amnesty bill is passed I think we will see a major shift next year for congress.

The amnesty bill that is being sought out right now bothers me as much as anything right now. It bothered me when Bush did it, and it bothers me now that Obama is doing it. The difference is when Bush was going to sign it there was such a HUGE public outcry that the administration canned it... Our current administration is too arrogant however and will pass it despite the will of the people.

Oh, and one other point, I agree that I SERIOUSLY resent being compared to some nut bag cop killer just because I am a conservative that happens to own a large number of guns... I DAMN sure resent this as a member of the Law Enforcement family. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the fallen officers.

PuroFreak

phobicsquirrel:
kuzi16:
Reg Henry:
Since Mr. Obama was elected, a cottage industry of resentment has sprung up to cater to sore losers. From talk shows hosts who hope the president fails, to others who hint at insurrection, to Web sites that play on crazy fantasies (Barack Obama's a Muslim! He was born in Kenya! He's a Marxist!), the chorus is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater.
what about all those people that wanted Bush dead? what about those that still want to bring him to trial? what about all the democrats that wanted Bush, the war, and everything else that any republican ever brought up to fail? what about the claims that Bush would bring back the draft?

little bit of a double standard here...

and to be fair, Obama is not a Marxist...
hes more of a Fascist...

yes, it is our government. We voted for them. on that note, they arent looking out for us. I will not respect a Government that will not Respect the individual rights of its citizens. I also will not run out and kill a cop because they are pert of the government. just because i dont like the government as it is right this minute does not mean that i am violent. It does mean that i will debate, discuss, and vote my mind every time that i can. I wish to change the government through a free exchange of thoughts, not a free exchange of bullets.

Hillary Clinton said it best:
"I have the right to disagree with this administration or any administration... "
amen to that.
obama a Fascist? so if he's a fascist what is bush?

Responded to this one in the Non-Cigar Related.

http://www.cigar.com/cs/forums/41/48334/ShowThread.aspx#48334

kuzi16

phobicsquirrel:
kuzi16:
Reg Henry:
Since Mr. Obama was elected, a cottage industry of resentment has sprung up to cater to sore losers. From talk shows hosts who hope the president fails, to others who hint at insurrection, to Web sites that play on crazy fantasies (Barack Obama's a Muslim! He was born in Kenya! He's a Marxist!), the chorus is the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theater.
what about all those people that wanted Bush dead? what about those that still want to bring him to trial? what about all the democrats that wanted Bush, the war, and everything else that any republican ever brought up to fail? what about the claims that Bush would bring back the draft?

little bit of a double standard here...

and to be fair, Obama is not a Marxist...
hes more of a Fascist...

yes, it is our government. We voted for them. on that note, they arent looking out for us. I will not respect a Government that will not Respect the individual rights of its citizens. I also will not run out and kill a cop because they are pert of the government. just because i dont like the government as it is right this minute does not mean that i am violent. It does mean that i will debate, discuss, and vote my mind every time that i can. I wish to change the government through a free exchange of thoughts, not a free exchange of bullets.

Hillary Clinton said it best:
"I have the right to disagree with this administration or any administration... "
amen to that.
obama a Fascist? so if he's a fascist what is bush?

stupid

bush was not taking over private industry. Fascists have privately owned business (the banks, GM, and soon others including healtcare) with the government having 100% control over them. this seems to be the type of government that Mr. Obama is setting in place. More government control over private industry.

give this link a shot (some of you have seen this)

bigharpoon

It is constitutionally impossible for the president of the United States to be a facist. Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, it doesn't matter. Facism is a one party government ruled by a select few that don't allow opinion or speech contradictory to the regime.

We still have at least two parties at any time, contradictory opinions and powers of speech, 100 Senators and 435 Congressional Representatives and State government. We are a Republic.

PuroFreak

Anyone who would claim Bush as a fascist obviously has NO FREAKIN CLUE what fascism really is so let me help ya out here:

fas·cism –noun
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

And no that is NOT a Wiki definition. My point being we have seen the largest growth in government control, particularly the executive branch, in our nations HISTORY under the Obama administration. Look at the things that are being sought by his administration:
Fairness doctorine (under another name) This is without a doubt a way for the government to "forcibly suppress opposition and criticism."
Bail Outs, Stimulus Funds, and TARP Funds: "regimenting all industry, commerce, etc..."
I know some will make the point that they aren't trying to control ALL industry, but just wait, it's only been a little less than 3 months. Timmy Geithner is already turning his eyes towards the Life Insurance companies and more will follow.

To say that Bush or Reagan were fascists is insane! We are seeing the government stripping away our rights little by little every day right now and it will continue until something changes.

Jetmech_63

I think Socialism is a bit more apporpriate.

phobicsquirrel

PuroFreak:
Anyone who would claim Bush as a fascist obviously has NO FREAKIN CLUE what fascism really is so let me help ya out here:

fas·cism –noun
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

And no that is NOT a Wiki definition. My point being we have seen the largest growth in government control, particularly the executive branch, in our nations HISTORY under the Obama administration. Look at the things that are being sought by his administration:
Fairness doctorine (under another name) This is without a doubt a way for the government to "forcibly suppress opposition and criticism."
Bail Outs, Stimulus Funds, and TARP Funds: "regimenting all industry, commerce, etc..."
I know some will make the point that they aren't trying to control ALL industry, but just wait, it's only been a little less than 3 months. Timmy Geithner is already turning his eyes towards the Life Insurance companies and more will follow.

To say that Bush or Reagan were fascists is insane! We are seeing the government stripping away our rights little by little every day right now and it will continue until something changes.

puro your not rush limbaugh are you?

PuroFreak

phobicsquirrel:
PuroFreak:
Anyone who would claim Bush as a fascist obviously has NO FREAKIN CLUE what fascism really is so let me help ya out here:

fas·cism –noun
(sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

And no that is NOT a Wiki definition. My point being we have seen the largest growth in government control, particularly the executive branch, in our nations HISTORY under the Obama administration. Look at the things that are being sought by his administration:
Fairness doctorine (under another name) This is without a doubt a way for the government to "forcibly suppress opposition and criticism."
Bail Outs, Stimulus Funds, and TARP Funds: "regimenting all industry, commerce, etc..."
I know some will make the point that they aren't trying to control ALL industry, but just wait, it's only been a little less than 3 months. Timmy Geithner is already turning his eyes towards the Life Insurance companies and more will follow.

To say that Bush or Reagan were fascists is insane! We are seeing the government stripping away our rights little by little every day right now and it will continue until something changes.
puro your not rush limbaugh are you?

DAMNIT! My secret is out! haha

kuzi16

bigharpoon:
It is constitutionally impossible for the president of the United States to be a facist. Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative, it doesn't matter. Facism is a one party government ruled by a select few that don't allow opinion or speech contradictory to the regime.

We still have at least two parties at any time, contradictory opinions and powers of speech, 100 Senators and 435 Congressional Representatives and State government. We are a Republic.

though you are correct in this statement there was a time when Hitler (arguably the most (in)famous Fascist of the last ... well, ever) was elected in as part of a party system. I'm not saying that Obama IS a fascist and is trying to convert the entire US to Fascism. I am saying that many of his policies are fascist in nature. you (personally) can be a fascist, support fascism, and spew fascist concepts within a two party system.

it is fortunate for us that we do live in a representative republic where we have the opportunity to correct this should our government start leaning more and more to the Fascist side.
...as i believe it is. Open and honest debate would be the starting point of any change that would come should it be needed.