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Forum Blend Phase 4 - Filler Discussion

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  • The KidThe Kid Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,842
    docbp87:
    Alex Svenson:
    The Seed used to grow Cameroon tobacco is the same seed they grow in Ecuador.
    I feel like jigsaw pieces in my brain are finally fitting together, thanks to this forum blend process... the similarities between Ecuadoran Sumatra and Cameroon... sweet nutty notes especially... it's all clicking!

    Thanks for this awesome opportunity, and masterclass Alex!
    Im assuming burn rates are also controlled by adjusting primings of a certain leaf types
  • ShotgunJohnShotgunJohn Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,539
    I have never really thought about fillers, but Habano Condega sounds good and sounds like it will hold up.
    I really like the Arapiraca and the sweetness, and wonder if it will blend well with the Cameroon binder, and the Ecuadoran Sumatra
    Thanks Alex I love seeing a glimpse in process that goes into the peliminary setup for the blend.
  • denniskingdennisking Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,681
    I was really hoping for Ometepe to show up. I really like the way it makes the Punch Uppercut have that unique flavor. Condega is also up there for me.
  • bigjohn125bigjohn125 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 476
    KCW:
    xmacro:


    For the most part, I'd like a cigar that's smooth. I really hate pepper bombs - from having to spit when I light them up to reaching for my drink every 5 seconds, I'd like this forum blend to turn into something that I can smoke without reaching for my drink after every puff and that will age well. Besides, there are enough nicotine/pepper bombs on the market already for those whose tastes stray that way.

    I hear ya. For me, thats why I love Fuente stuff.. Still strong yet, smooth & many are just simply fantastic.
    +1
  • BigT06BigT06 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,899
    docbp87:
    Condega, Honduras Copan, and Brazilian Mata Fina are all fillers that stand out to me right away. As for Cameroon, my opinion is to save it for the binder. My only potential concern with any of the three fillers I mentioned above is the Mata Fina. As Alex said, it has a distinct, though maybe not exotic character... For those curious, it is the binder used on most all (maybe ALL) of the Liga Privada cigars from Drew Estate, and is a component in the Undercrown blend fillers. Food for thought.
    I don't think I could have said any of that any better or any differently. I agree with every word of this, Doc.

    I think those 3 fillers, blended with the the Ecu. Sum wrapper and Cam binder will make magic.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 14,471
    dennisking:
    I was really hoping for Ometepe to show up.
    yes. i agree. this tobacco is interesting, unique, and full of flavor. Habano Ometepe is a must have if you want a med-full cigar with an interesting flavor.
    the LHC CORE has Ometepe Ligero as a filler and that is one cigar that most of us can agree is good and has a fairly unique flavor.
    i HIGHLY recommend it in this blend.
    ... especially if there is some honduran and/or cameroon tobacco. we could play up the sweeter aspects with cameroon or bring a nuttier note to the woody-spice with honduran tobacco.

    i do have to admit that i am a whore for honduran tobacco, but remember that honduran tobacco and nicaraguan tobacco play well together.

    i would stay away from the PA broadleaf unless there are some sweeter (cameroon ) and/or salty elements (equadorian binder or maybe filler if it was a ligero or a viso) to work with the hickory.


    Habano Condega is very easy to add balance to almost any blend. depending on the priming and the other leaves, this is the leaf that will add a solid undertone that can tie things together.

    there are so many options to think about, but take serious consideration to Habano Condega and Habano Ometepe.




    there is just so much to consider.
  • deejmemixxdeejmemixx Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,064
    BigT06:
    docbp87:
    Condega, Honduras Copan, and Brazilian Mata Fina are all fillers that stand out to me right away. As for Cameroon, my opinion is to save it for the binder. My only potential concern with any of the three fillers I mentioned above is the Mata Fina. As Alex said, it has a distinct, though maybe not exotic character... For those curious, it is the binder used on most all (maybe ALL) of the Liga Privada cigars from Drew Estate, and is a component in the Undercrown blend fillers. Food for thought.
    I don't think I could have said any of that any better or any differently. I agree with every word of this, Doc.

    I think those 3 fillers, blended with the the Ecu. Sum wrapper and Cam binder will make magic.
    +1
  • bigharpoonbigharpoon Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,909
    Since Alex strongly suggested Condega I think that should definitely be included. I'm still interested in Honduran Copan since that was my vote for the wrapper ~ I still think it would taste great as part of the cigar. I also like sweet, peaty flavors if they are subtle, maybe an Arapiraca leaf would work. It would be nice to get one exotic leaf in there.

    I'm wondering about the Cameroon leaf being talked about as a binder. I know this isn't the binder discussion yet but all this has to work together. If we choose Cameroon as binder which is the same seed as our Ecu. Sumatra wrapper is that going to make this cigar too one dimensional? I like Cameroon but I like complexity more.
  • rwheelwrightrwheelwright Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,294
    bigharpoon:
    Since Alex strongly suggested Condega I think that should definitely be included. I'm still interested in Honduran Copan since that was my vote for the wrapper ~ I still think it would taste great as part of the cigar. I also like sweet, peaty flavors if they are subtle, maybe an Arapiraca leaf would work. It would be nice to get one exotic leaf in there.

    I'm wondering about the Cameroon leaf being talked about as a binder. I know this isn't the binder discussion yet but all this has to work together. If we choose Cameroon as binder which is the same seed as our Ecu. Sumatra wrapper is that going to make this cigar too one dimensional? I like Cameroon but I like complexity more.
    In my experience smoking even though yhey are the same seed they taste comletely different.
  • 90+ Irishman90+ Irishman Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 7,868
    Wow, way excited to see this come to life and the development of the blend and selection, thanks for the opportunity to do this Alex and for also giving us the "backstory" and examples on the selections as well, this is way kewl!

    First off, gotta trust the experts and history as well so the Habano Condega is certainly a must, besides Nicaraguan Habano leaf is d@mn hard to beat anyways. Personally I like a very "meaty" and "chewy" core to a medium/medium-full blend and the PA Broadleaf would help to balance the spicy sweetness of the Condega nicely with its leather and hickory notes while richening up the blend with the semi-sweet dark chocolate that it brings in as well. From there, we have two of our three and I believe that the Jalapa Habano would finish this off best for a number of reasons. It is a great combustion leaf as Alex has stated, and using the PA Broadleaf along with plenty of ligero in this blend will make this a stick that is prone to burn issues due to all the oil and hearty leaves that it holds within it. A leaf that is known for combusting well would help this issue greatly, then add to that the spiciness from the red pepper notes that will already compliment the sweet spice present and add some refined notes of cedar to balance the leather and you have a real winner in my book. At the end of the day, these are merely my opinions, and you know what they say about opinions... :P

    1. Habano Condega
    2. PA Broadleaf Maduro
    3. Jalapa Habano
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
    90+ Irishman:
    Wow, way excited to see this come to life and the development of the blend and selection, thanks for the opportunity to do this Alex and for also giving us the "backstory" and examples on the selections as well, this is way kewl!

    First off, gotta trust the experts and history as well so the Habano Condega is certainly a must, besides Nicaraguan Habano leaf is d@mn hard to beat anyways. Personally I like a very "meaty" and "chewy" core to a medium/medium-full blend and the PA Broadleaf would help to balance the spicy sweetness of the Condega nicely with its leather and hickory notes while richening up the blend with the semi-sweet dark chocolate that it brings in as well. From there, we have two of our three and I believe that the Jalapa Habano would finish this off best for a number of reasons. It is a great combustion leaf as Alex has stated, and using the PA Broadleaf along with plenty of ligero in this blend will make this a stick that is prone to burn issues due to all the oil and hearty leaves that it holds within it. A leaf that is known for combusting well would help this issue greatly, then add to that the spiciness from the red pepper notes that will already compliment the sweet spice present and add some refined notes of cedar to balance the leather and you have a real winner in my book. At the end of the day, these are merely my opinions, and you know what they say about opinions... :P

    1. Habano Condega
    2. PA Broadleaf Maduro
    3. Jalapa Habano
    Alex wrote : "Condega blends well with everything. Copan also plays well with everything. The truth is, you guys can pick pretty much any tobaccos on this list at this point and I can get it to the body we need it to be by using different plant priming's and different proportions. if you guys are talking Sumatra Ecuador wrapper and Cameroon binder then I strongly suggest Cuban seed fillers. The Seed used to grow Cameroon tobacco is the same seed they grow in Ecuador. Sumatra. Therefore, to ensure the best complexity, I would focus on a base of Cuban seed tobaccos and avoid exotics. again, that is assuming you guys do want to go with the Cameroon binder. ..."

    I like the idea of the cameroon binder with the Sumatra Ecuador wrapper we've selected, and I think that the Habano Condega ought to be one of the fillers, so, as suggested, we ought to stick with Cuban seed fillers. That would probably rule out the PA Broadleaf, even though that combo sounds pretty "sweet" (pun intended).
  • JDHJDH Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,107
    rwheelwright:
    bigharpoon:
    Since Alex strongly suggested Condega I think that should definitely be included. I'm still interested in Honduran Copan since that was my vote for the wrapper ~ I still think it would taste great as part of the cigar. I also like sweet, peaty flavors if they are subtle, maybe an Arapiraca leaf would work. It would be nice to get one exotic leaf in there.

    I'm wondering about the Cameroon leaf being talked about as a binder. I know this isn't the binder discussion yet but all this has to work together. If we choose Cameroon as binder which is the same seed as our Ecu. Sumatra wrapper is that going to make this cigar too one dimensional? I like Cameroon but I like complexity more.
    In my experience smoking even though yhey are the same seed they taste comletely different.
    Great question, bigharpoon. I'd like to hear from Alex on this one too, and the use of the Copan as well. I like the idea of including both honduran and nicaraguan fillers, and the copan is a nice leaf, for sure, although I don't know if the copan is a Cuban seed or not..
  • denniskingdennisking Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,681
    kuzi16:
    dennisking:
    I was really hoping for Ometepe to show up.
    yes. i agree. this tobacco is interesting, unique, and full of flavor. Habano Ometepe is a must have if you want a med-full cigar with an interesting flavor.
    the LHC CORE has Ometepe Ligero as a filler and that is one cigar that most of us can agree is good and has a fairly unique flavor.
    i HIGHLY recommend it in this blend.
    ... especially if there is some honduran and/or cameroon tobacco. we could play up the sweeter aspects with cameroon or bring a nuttier note to the woody-spice with honduran tobacco.

    i do have to admit that i am a whore for honduran tobacco, but remember that honduran tobacco and nicaraguan tobacco play well together.

    i would stay away from the PA broadleaf unless there are some sweeter (cameroon ) and/or salty elements (equadorian binder or maybe filler if it was a ligero or a viso) to work with the hickory.


    Habano Condega is very easy to add balance to almost any blend. depending on the priming and the other leaves, this is the leaf that will add a solid undertone that can tie things together.

    there are so many options to think about, but take serious consideration to Habano Condega and Habano Ometepe.




    there is just so much to consider.
    well put Matt. The Ometepe is not common in smokes which makes it something that would set our stick apart from most others. The volcanic soil really changes the way it tastes.
  • KriegerKrieger Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 337
    Peruvian tobacco is de-lish!!!
  • Gaetano7890Gaetano7890 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 771
    I'm all for ometepe tobacco also love the uppercut and the core. Only other thing I would like to see is a decent amount of ligero tobacco in the center to slow the burn down and give it thaT medium full were looking for.
  • beatnicbeatnic Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,133
    Hey Alex. Keep you iPhone handy when blending and rolling is going on. I'd like to see a pic of each of the leaves chosen. Thanks for doing this.
  • Poker SlobPoker Slob Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 996
    I agree with Dennis and Gaetano, the Ometepe adds a unique character, much as it does in the Upper Cut.
  • firetruckguyfiretruckguy Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,484
    Poker Slob:
    I agree with Dennis and Gaetano, the Ometepe adds a unique character, much as it does in the Upper Cut.
    Yo slob, hows the resturant coming?
  • pbchevopbchevo Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 712
    i love these threads because i learn something lol
  • gmill880gmill880 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,947
    These threads are a great place to look before heading out to a b&m ...
  • xmacroxmacro Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,402
    It's threads like these that make me regret not being able to taste more in my cigars . . . . also makes me regret giving up (smoking, not buying) cigars for Lent Sad [:(]
  • robbyrasrobbyras Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,487
    I've been gone, but I want in on this for sure...
  • Ken LightKen Light Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,524
    dennisking:
    I was really hoping for Ometepe to show up. I really like the way it makes the Punch Uppercut have that unique flavor.
    This. That cigar had a huge wow factor for me. Even at 5 AM at Harrah's, lol
  • docbp87docbp87 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 3,521
    xmacro:
    It's threads like these that make me regret not being able to taste more in my cigars . . . . also makes me regret giving up (smoking, not buying) cigars for Lent Sad [:(]
    Sometimes taking a month or two off from smoking makes them even better when you come back. I don't smoke much through the winter months, but come spring time, my palate just soaks up flavors, like my taste buds are just STARVING!
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 2,561
    I'd really like to see some ometepe filler in there.
  • StrongStyleStrongStyle Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 221
    this has been a really awesome thread to read thorugh for somone who knows little about the filler.
  • ToombesToombes Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 4,451
    I'm gonna have to go with Ometepe, as well. The few Uppercuts and the one Core I've had blew me away with their profiles. I know binder and wrapper factor into the taste, but I consider them to be more like condiments with a good meal. They add to the overall picture, but they're not the only thing you want to taste.
  • laker1963laker1963 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,046
    After much reading and thinking and looking over everyone else's choices and reasons for them, I have finally come up with my choices. I think it would put out a flavorful, med. to full bodied stick with good burn capacity that would be a great representation of what a Nicaraguan cigar is all about. Added to the Sumatra Ecuador Oscuro wrapper we are using and I think this would be a hit. (for me anyway LMAO)
    Jalapa Habano
    Habano Condega
    Habano Ometepe
  • bbass2bbass2 Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 1,056
    bump, and combining all pertinent info from Alex
    Alex Svenson:
    Time to discuss filler. THIS IS NOT A VOTING THREAD. Just an open discussion to share thoughts and ideas. Voting will open in a day or two. Note, as of now we will be getting toros, lanceros and torpedos in a medium to full bodied blend with a Sumatra Ecuador Oscuro (high priming) wrapper. When the voting gets going, here is how it is going to work, there will be three seperate votes. First vote, filler 1, second vote filler 2 and third vote filler 3. It is pointless for us to tally up the top three as they may not blend well with each other so I think we need to take this one filler leaf at a time. When voting, we are going to vote only on leaves, not primings and proportions. I will need to set those so they blend as ideally as possible and achieve the medium to full body we are looking for. So let the discussion begin.

    Arapiraca - Found on CAO Black VR and Cigar.com Brazilian Label. Sweet maduro grown in brazil. Sugary qualities and an oily wrapper. Sweet with notes of wood and and a light peat and maple.

    Mata Fina - Found on cigars like CAO Brazilia for example. Brazilian wrapper with a nice light sweetness but a core of chewy, leathery flavors and light spiciness.

    Indonesia - Thin and somewhat blotchy wrapper. It is slightly sweet yet bitter also with a sharp finish. Found mainly on cheap cigars. IE Flor de Oliva.

    Pennsylvania Broadleaf Maduro - large leaves grown in Pennsylvania and cured over hickory fires. This leaf is as sweet as it is spicy with definable woody, hickory notes. Examples include Diesel Unholy Cocktail, Rocky Patel Winter Blend and 5 Vegas Gold Maduro.

    Habano Copan Honduras - also referred to as "La Entrada", this is a particularly unique wrapper that has become popular in the past 24 months. Grown by Oliva Tampa one of Honduras' oldest growing regions, this wrapper has all the elegance of Habano Ecuador yet teams with flavor and complexity as well as strength. Examples include Diesel Unlimited and Man O War Puro Authentico.

    Jalapa Habano - Nicaraguas northern most growing region, its red soils and shade growing produce a very sweet habano seed leaf that is thin for ideal combustion and shows notes of cedar and hints of red pepper. Also available in limited quantities of sun grown for an even richer experience. Examples include Padron natural, gran habano corojo, cuba libre one, cu avana intensus and many others. Nicaraguas most popular wrapper growing region.

    Esteli Habano - this wrapper has a very, very small yield. So small in fact that I can't name a single cigar on the market that uses it on account on how limited it is. Esteli is known for growing nicaraguas most robust fillers, every year, 1 to 2% of the crop is over wrapper grade and could be used as wrapper. A forum blend with this would be the first blend I know if in the industry actively using Esteli Sun Grown.

    San Andres maduro - found on cigars like Padron Maduro, Nica Libre and Liga Privada Under Crown, this wrapper is very popular among maduro fans but its appearance is not the rich, espresso brown most maduros may present. Grown in Mexico from proprietary seeds planted in San Andres for nearly 150 years, this wrapper has excellent combustion with a pleasant sweetness and is ideal for medium bodied maduros which don't lake anything in flavor department.

    Mexican Maroon- Steming from the same plant as the San Andres, these lower priming leaves take on more of a reddish hugh than its darker counterpart. The flavor is somewhat bitter yet carrys undertones of sweetness and spice. It is most noted for having a long and distinct, bitter finish.

    Cameroon - Sumatra seeds planted in Africa and harvested by a network of small independent farmers, Cameroon wrapper can be found on a host of cigars including Cohiba Red Dot, Fuente and Partagas. Cameroon wrapper is toothy and oily yet very thin and delicate making if flavorful with ideal combustion. Most popular in the late 1990's, this wrapper today still remains a popular choice for master blenders, favored for its sweet cedary notes and long finish.

    Dominican Criollo - most coveted as a filler, there is a small wrapper yield of this tobacco making it somewhat limited. While it is not much to look at, it is a rich leaf with a distinct bitter spiciness that delivers in both flavor and body. Many cigars from Pinar del Rio as well as Vegas Relic use a wrapper such as this.

    Habano Condega - Nicaraguan filler from the north of Nicaragua near the Honduras Boarder. Found in almost every Nicaraguan blend, this filler is a main stay in many premium cigars as it provides a smooth base of flavor with some sweet and spiciness.

    Habano Ometepe - Nicaraguas famous sweet water island. This tobacco is robust, sweet and hits you in the sinuses.

    Peruvian - an exotic and toasty tobacco with some sweet cedary notes and floral tones.

    Panamanian - an exotic and sweet tobacco. Thick smoke with notes of maple and a light peatiness.,br>
    Columbian Cubita - an exotic leaf that is toasty and bready with slight pepper tones.


    Even though it may be very appealing to do so, dont load up on exotics. They really alter a blend and dont play well together. I would consider ometepe, mata fina, arapiraca, panama, peru and columbia to be on the exotic side. I would not double up on any of these. not to say they are exotic tasting, but they have a very strong influence on a blend and need to be used in moderation.


    I also think Condega is a must. Great base for a blend

    Condega blends well with everything. Copan also plays well with everything. The truth is, you guys can pick pretty much any tobaccos on this list at this point and I can get it to the body we need it to be by using different plant priming's and different proportions. if you guys are talking Sumatra Ecuador wrapper and Cameroon binder then I strongly suggest Cuban seed fillers. The Seed used to grow Cameroon tobacco is the same seed they grow in Ecuador. Sumatra. Therefore, to ensure the best complexity, I would focus on a base of Cuban seed tobaccos and avoid exotics. again, that is assuming you guys do want to go with the Cameroon binder. ultimately, this is your project so do not let me dissuade you. I am only chiming in because someone asked.


  • RCY CigarsRCY Cigars Everyone, Registered Users Posts: 5,346
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