Will never be repealed, because it's the chief financing mechanism for the healthcare program it's attached to. So you'd have to eliminate the program and no future president (not even Sarah Palin) would throw these "poor kids" back into the ranks of the uninsured. In fact, it's quite obvious if you look at recent trends that the taxes will continue to go up, unless of course they choose to outlaw tobacco products entirely. That wouldn't surprise me.
there is one way. eliminate the taxes to it but not the program. tax someting else.
not that this would be a good solution, there is still another group being taxed. the government cannot give anything to anyone without first taking away from someone else.
Will never be repealed, because it's the chief financing mechanism for the healthcare program it's attached to. So you'd have to eliminate the program and no future president (not even Sarah Palin) would throw these "poor kids" back into the ranks of the uninsured. In fact, it's quite obvious if you look at recent trends that the taxes will continue to go up, unless of course they choose to outlaw tobacco products entirely. That wouldn't surprise me.
there is one way. eliminate the taxes to it but not the program. tax someting else.
not that this would be a good solution, there is still another group being taxed. the government cannot give anything to anyone without first taking away from someone else.
yet here is another. This bill provides insurance not healthcare.. insurance and subidises drive up the costs of the services because "insurance pays for it"... why not tackle the problem.. costs of services?
what drives up costs? Taxes, insurance, regulation. liability workmens comp. etc etc why do you think jobs go south or overseas. who pays for all this iin the end, the consumer, every body thinks tax the corparation or let the goverment pay for it. well the goverment is us and corpartions only exist on paper. so who pays ..WE THE PEOPLE...
but on the healthcare issues. it is an industry, something like 7% of out GNP last I heard..last time I went there was an insurance rate and a pay your own rate... they know the get more when someone else is picking up the tab so they do... good example... not on healthcare but same principle..
worked for a railroad contractor and we were out west.. the foreman made a boo-boo in the company truck and tore up the side of it on a barb wire fence, I was tasked with finding a place to get it fixed..
Car shops" company truck,eh?, well lets sees you need this, this, this and that will be $4000.."
me"we have to pay for this ourselve"
car shops" probably get it repainted for about $600"
I was once told something is only worth as much as somebody else will pay for it.
the truth is if the was no such thing as insurance or credit EVERYTHING would be much much cheaper.
IT would have to be or it wouldnt get purchased..$80 for usually adds up to about 5 minutes of actually being seen by the doctor?
but I know insurance or credit aint gong anywhere... so my proposal.. "and in the first 100 days of my adminstration... We will do everything in our power to drastically alter the business climate in these Great United States, I will enact by legislation and and every executive power afforded to me to reduce the cost of doing business in America. Starting by elimanting corporate taxes altoghter, by George companies dont pay these, you the hard working broke ass Americans pay these and you are taxed enough..Secondly will work to limit and cap liabilty and still leave the orignal inteded purpose of looking out the the indivuals,,, becuase once again, McDonalds didnt pay the crazy *** to dump coffee on herself, every one who has ever had a Big Mac paid her. and then we will move on to my "Dont Work Dont Eat" program.. dont worry.. if you are Legitmately helpless, will we find you help. There will be jobs, and every body that needs will be able to get one." or something like that
Agree in principle. Except for the assumption that the concept of insurance drives up the cost of healthcare. I don't have insurance for my dog. Yet my vet bills are double the medical bills of my kids. Explain that one!
Agree in principle. Except for the assumption that the concept of insurance drives up the cost of healthcare. I don't have insurance for my dog. Yet my vet bills are double the medical bills of my kids. Explain that one!
Heh, my dogs AND cat all have insurance. Its cheaper than the Vet bills.
Anybody watch the Obama press conference? If you did wht did you think? I was not convinced or impressed with this stimulus program merits etc. I don't think he's as sincere or inspires much confidence. Did not like his whiney delivery. Whether your a Republican or Democrat two guys who could go on tv before the nation and inspire confidence in a time of crisis and make you believe in what they were saying were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton regardless of if you liked them or not. They just seemed to have that majical ability to connect with their audience......just a thought
Yea one think I liked about Obama was how polished he seemed as a public speaker. Last night, to me, showed he isn't quite the speaker we thought he was. He did seem very whiny, constantly complaining about people who said the federal government should do nothing.
I understand he thinks that doing nothing isn't an option and that anyone who thinks that can't be negotiated with. I really do completely understand his point, whether I agree with it or not but his consistent whining about it was annoying.
Also who the hell was that old lady, she really made him look like an @ss.
Yea one think I liked about Obama was how polished he seemed as a public speaker. Last night, to me, showed he isn't quite the speaker we thought he was. He did seem very whiny, constantly complaining about people who said the federal government should do nothing.
I understand he thinks that doing nothing isn't an option and that anyone who thinks that can't be negotiated with. I really do completely understand his point, whether I agree with it or not but his consistent whining about it was annoying.
Also who the hell was that old lady, she really made him look like an @ss.
You know most of the questions are pre-arranged to avoid surprises. You probably will not see here called upon at future press conferences.
Yea one think I liked about Obama was how polished he seemed as a public speaker. Last night, to me, showed he isn't quite the speaker we thought he was. He did seem very whiny, constantly complaining about people who said the federal government should do nothing.
I understand he thinks that doing nothing isn't an option and that anyone who thinks that can't be negotiated with. I really do completely understand his point, whether I agree with it or not but his consistent whining about it was annoying.
Also who the hell was that old lady, she really made him look like an @ss.
You know most of the questions are pre-arranged to avoid surprises. You probably will not see here called upon at future press conferences.
No doubt. I couldn't even figure out what it was she was asking.
I'm gonna start selling a diet tape! Not video tape or audio tape, but freakin DUCT TAPE! So the cheeseburgers can't slide down your throats ya fat bastards!!! lol The only 100% effective diet tape!
I hear you. I agree that some people have weight problems, and some have a super low metabolism which makes it that much harder to lose weight. Sure, it's a problem. But to say your can't loose weight because it's is bs.
Fact: If you burn more calories that you consume you will lose weight. No if's, and's, or but's.
Kids do need more assistance though. They have no say in the matter of insurance and whatnot. What is unfortunate for the tax payer and we smokers is the fact that a lot of this money is going to children of illegals which have no insurance.
Anybody watch the Obama press conference? If you did wht did you think? I was not convinced or impressed with this stimulus program merits etc. I don't think he's as sincere or inspires much confidence. Did not like his whiney delivery. Whether your a Republican or Democrat two guys who could go on tv before the nation and inspire confidence in a time of crisis and make you believe in what they were saying were Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton regardless of if you liked them or not. They just seemed to have that majical ability to connect with their audience......just a thought
All I know is the economy sucks right now, my wife is worried about her career because of it. I am worried because I don't think the stimulus package is gonna do what the President wants it to do. Dont fool youselves hard times are coming fellas.
Just a little note about how this SCHIP tax will honestly affect us... If this doesn't make you mad I don't know what will. This email came from a local smoke shop here in the Dallas area.
The new SCHIP tax will go into effect on April 1st. Our well-intended, jackass politicians in Washington, D.C. have decided that only smokers can afford to pay for health care for children, so they have raised the federal tax on cigarettes 162%, the tax on cigars over 750%. That is not a misprint; the federal tax has gone from under .05 per cigar to .40 per cigar. How will this affect the price of your cigar? Well, many manufacturers will margin that tax increase to about .70 at wholesale, maybe more on some more expensive cigars, maybe less on others. Many retailers will pass that along as an increase to you at up to "keystone margins", resulting in increases of as much as $1.40 per cigar on average. This will make the average $4.00 retail cigar sell for $5.40, raising a $100.00 box of 25 cigars to $135.00 at list price. These are the real numbers. The tax on roll your own tobacco went up 2300%, but that is another story altogether. I believe the quote was “No new taxes on people who make less than 250,000 a year” but that should’ve ended with “unless they smoke.” The President signed the bill on February 4, 2009.
At the end of the email they had a GREAT point! His quote was "They can't tax you on what you already own!" I guess it's time to flood Ccom with some orders so we can all get stocked up!
Just a little note about how this SCHIP tax will honestly affect us... If this doesn't make you mad I don't know what will. This email came from a local smoke shop here in the Dallas area.
The new SCHIP tax will go into effect on April 1st. Our well-intended, jackass politicians in Washington, D.C. have decided that only smokers can afford to pay for health care for children, so they have raised the federal tax on cigarettes 162%, the tax on cigars over 750%. That is not a misprint; the federal tax has gone from under .05 per cigar to .40 per cigar. How will this affect the price of your cigar? Well, many manufacturers will margin that tax increase to about .70 at wholesale, maybe more on some more expensive cigars, maybe less on others. Many retailers will pass that along as an increase to you at up to "keystone margins", resulting in increases of as much as $1.40 per cigar on average. This will make the average $4.00 retail cigar sell for $5.40, raising a $100.00 box of 25 cigars to $135.00 at list price. These are the real numbers. The tax on roll your own tobacco went up 2300%, but that is another story altogether. I believe the quote was “No new taxes on people who make less than 250,000 a year” but that should’ve ended with “unless they smoke.” The President signed the bill on February 4, 2009.
At the end of the email they had a GREAT point! His quote was "They can't tax you on what you already own!" I guess it's time to flood Ccom with some orders so we can all get stocked up!
Thanks puro. This is why I never joined that cigar rights club, I feel that this should be a sue-able thing. Also this should have never been up for law. Also why are cigars taxed much more than cigs? my god cigs are a multi billion dollar industry! WTF
It's not that cigars are being taxed much more than cigarettes. Rather, the percentage is larger because cigars have historically been taxed much less.
The only thing about Puro's note that irks me is that the middlemen see the tax as another opportunity to turn a profit. It states blankly that the taxes themselves will be marked up as a percentage throughout the process. We do this all the time in business. The oil companies are the best example. For years they were "complaining" that the cost per barrel of oil was skyrocketing. However, their markups are all percentage-based, so they were turning record profits. There is nothing in the law that states that the wholesalers and retailers need to mark up the taxes before passing them farther down the line.
The tax is being raised to $0.40 per cigar. The note itself points out that the end result to the consumer will be a markup of $1.40 per cigar. To look at it another way, there is an extra $1.00 of profit per cigar, being assessed to the customer and passed along to the manufacturers and middlemen. What are they complaining about? The smokers themselves are the only ones with the right to complain.
I kind of see their reasoning behind bumping the price a little though. They are businessmen and have to make a profit. They have employees and bills to pay, and lets face it, they are in this line of work for money. If this tax cuts back the number of people buying cigars and cuts how often people buy cigars, then they are trying to make up a little of the lost revenue.
This whole thing is garbage. In all honesty America keeps treating the symptoms instead of the damn problems. Maybe no one can get their kids healthcare becuase no one has any damn money! Besides that I am getting sick and tired of the Government being so "affected" by everything. Like everything is some uncontrollable diseases that occurs with time, and there was nothing we can do to prevent it, and it's no ones fault, and simply we are in a trough, and costs are going up yada yada. Both parties keep preaching this doctrine becuase no one wants to be responsible. The government and these problems all having one thing in common; people. Which makes them -people problems. We need to start finding the responsible parties, watch some heads roll, and replace them. America has gotten so afraid to be confrontational. We NEED some confrontation. All these companies doing utterly stupid things with their money and to avoid confrontation we hand them some more.
-Say your the parent of a small child, and you give them a little doll. Then the child takes that doll and beats it, breaks it, craps on it, and cries for another.As a parent what do you do? Well our government seems to be that annoying grocery store parent; the one that has the little brat that begs for cereal and the parent just gives it to them to stop their crying becuase it's easier than letting him ball his eyes out.-
Before we hand out stimulus packages and bailouts I want to see some nuts kicked.
In the case of childrens' healthcare whose nuts are you going to kick? Medicaid? Hospitals? Doctors?
All problems are obviously caused by people (short of "acts of God" and if you believe in global warming then that's caused by people too!)
At issue here isn't who caused the problem of the uninsured. It's who's going to pay for the fix. Laying it in the laps of tobacco consumers is dumb to us, but politically expedient to politicians. My point has been that when you cheer the demonizing of some poor sap (me) and tell him he must pay more than his fair share for anything, guess what? Your're next! That's the way society has always worked. That's what MLK lived, and died, for.
Comments
not that this would be a good solution, there is still another group being taxed.
the government cannot give anything to anyone without first taking away from someone else.
but on the healthcare issues. it is an industry, something like 7% of out GNP last I heard..last time I went there was an insurance rate and a pay your own rate... they know the get more when someone else is picking up the tab so they do... good example... not on healthcare but same principle..
worked for a railroad contractor and we were out west.. the foreman made a boo-boo in the company truck and tore up the side of it on a barb wire fence, I was tasked with finding a place to get it fixed..
Car shops" company truck,eh?, well lets sees you need this, this, this and that will be $4000.."
me"we have to pay for this ourselve"
car shops" probably get it repainted for about $600"
I was once told something is only worth as much as somebody else will pay for it.
the truth is if the was no such thing as insurance or credit EVERYTHING would be much much cheaper. IT would have to be or it wouldnt get purchased..$80 for usually adds up to about 5 minutes of actually being seen by the doctor?
but I know insurance or credit aint gong anywhere... so my proposal..
"and in the first 100 days of my adminstration... We will do everything in our power to drastically alter the business climate in these Great United States, I will enact by legislation and and every executive power afforded to me to reduce the cost of doing business in America. Starting by elimanting corporate taxes altoghter, by George companies dont pay these, you the hard working broke ass Americans pay these and you are taxed enough..Secondly will work to limit and cap liabilty and still leave the orignal inteded purpose of looking out the the indivuals,,, becuase once again, McDonalds didnt pay the crazy *** to dump coffee on herself, every one who has ever had a Big Mac paid her. and then we will move on to my "Dont Work Dont Eat" program.. dont worry.. if you are Legitmately helpless, will we find you help. There will be jobs, and every body that needs will be able to get one." or something like that
i like that.
as long as we dont get EVEN MORE government ill be happy. Government isnt the solution, its the problem.
I understand he thinks that doing nothing isn't an option and that anyone who thinks that can't be negotiated with. I really do completely understand his point, whether I agree with it or not but his consistent whining about it was annoying.
Also who the hell was that old lady, she really made him look like an @ss.
Fact: If you burn more calories that you consume you will lose weight. No if's, and's, or but's.
Kids do need more assistance though. They have no say in the matter of insurance and whatnot. What is unfortunate for the tax payer and we smokers is the fact that a lot of this money is going to children of illegals which have no insurance.
All I know is the economy sucks right now, my wife is worried about her career because of it. I am worried because I don't think the stimulus package is gonna do what the President wants it to do. Dont fool youselves hard times are coming fellas.
The new SCHIP tax will go into effect on April 1st. Our well-intended, jackass politicians in Washington, D.C. have decided that only smokers can afford to pay for health care for children, so they have raised the federal tax on cigarettes 162%, the tax on cigars over 750%. That is not a misprint; the federal tax has gone from under .05 per cigar to .40 per cigar. How will this affect the price of your cigar? Well, many manufacturers will margin that tax increase to about .70 at wholesale, maybe more on some more expensive cigars, maybe less on others. Many retailers will pass that along as an increase to you at up to "keystone margins", resulting in increases of as much as $1.40 per cigar on average. This will make the average $4.00 retail cigar sell for $5.40, raising a $100.00 box of 25 cigars to $135.00 at list price. These are the real numbers. The tax on roll your own tobacco went up 2300%, but that is another story altogether. I believe the quote was “No new taxes on people who make less than 250,000 a year” but that should’ve ended with “unless they smoke.” The President signed the bill on February 4, 2009.
At the end of the email they had a GREAT point! His quote was "They can't tax you on what you already own!" I guess it's time to flood Ccom with some orders so we can all get stocked up!
The only thing about Puro's note that irks me is that the middlemen see the tax as another opportunity to turn a profit. It states blankly that the taxes themselves will be marked up as a percentage throughout the process. We do this all the time in business. The oil companies are the best example. For years they were "complaining" that the cost per barrel of oil was skyrocketing. However, their markups are all percentage-based, so they were turning record profits. There is nothing in the law that states that the wholesalers and retailers need to mark up the taxes before passing them farther down the line.
The tax is being raised to $0.40 per cigar. The note itself points out that the end result to the consumer will be a markup of $1.40 per cigar. To look at it another way, there is an extra $1.00 of profit per cigar, being assessed to the customer and passed along to the manufacturers and middlemen. What are they complaining about? The smokers themselves are the only ones with the right to complain.