"When oxygen is plentiful, butane burns to form carbon dioxide and water vapor; when oxygen is limited, carbon (soot) or carbon monoxide may also be formed.
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O
(Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
Okay. That makes sense. Thanks, Brett. Now, if someone could tell me what "boom roasted....literally" means, I'll go have dinner peacefully.
Hey no problem Marty, hope I clarified a few things about the torch/BIC confusion. Bass, I also appreciate it brother, no problem what so ever, like I said I enjoy helping out brothers... especially brothers in arms. Thanks for what you do man, you don't get enough credit for your efforts but it is noticed buy us my man. Come home safe and I'll buy you a torch myself along with a stick you should light said torch with
FYI.. no idea what boom roasted...literally means... might have accidentally been a typo and not recognized yet, can't say for sure though
Okay. That makes sense. Thanks, Brett. Now, if someone could tell me what "boom roasted....literally" means, I'll go have dinner peacefully.
Hey no problem Marty, hope I clarified a few things about the torch/BIC confusion. Bass, I also appreciate it brother, no problem what so ever, like I said I enjoy helping out brothers... especially brothers in arms. Thanks for what you do man, you don't get enough credit for your efforts but it is noticed buy us my man. Come home safe and I'll buy you a torch myself along with a stick you should light said torch with
FYI.. no idea what boom roasted...literally means... might have accidentally been a typo and not recognized yet, can't say for sure though
It's my pleasure.. honestly no torch or sticks are necessary, but I do thank you. I gotta bulk up on my inventory once I get home, then maybe we can trade. Take care!
"When oxygen is plentiful, butane burns to form carbon dioxide and water vapor; when oxygen is limited, carbon (soot) or carbon monoxide may also be formed.
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O
(Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
though this may be correct, it does not "completely change the flavor"
the butane in the BIC is refined as all butane is. the impurities are way less than a standard cedar match that has been handled by human hands. and in the article you used (wikipedia) it states "When oxygen is plentiful...' and O2 is plentiful, so the soot issue is not much of a problem.
seriously, stop telling people that BIC lighters suck because they are not a torch. im sure you cant tell the difference between a cigar lit by a bic and one lit by a torch by taste alone. i know i cant. i seriously doubt anyone can, even the most refined palates in the world.
Xikar produces a soft flame that burns cleaner than a BIC (especially if you use their fuel) if you are worried.
i am all about being fanatical about cigars, and i am all about trying to get the best that i can from them. but this is a bit crazy. a simple demonstration can show this: 1) obtain a torch lighter and a BIC lighter 2) light the bic and wait about 5 seconds and smell the air about a foot above the flame. 3) do the same with the torch. 4) compare the smell.
i just did exactly this. they smell EXACTLY the same. there is not even a difference in intensity.
the minute amount of impurities in butane in a lighter get easily overpowered by the cigar itself. the TINY amount of leftover butane (if there actually is any (i still have yet to see proof that there is) is so small that there is little to no effect on the flavor.
the Zippo on the other hand is a different ball game. the smell of the fuel is VERY strong. it also does not burn as clean as the "dirtiest" butane lighter.
long story short: BICs and other soft flame lighters are 100% safe on cigars and do not impart taste.
"When oxygen is plentiful, butane burns to form carbon dioxide and water vapor; when oxygen is limited, carbon (soot) or carbon monoxide may also be formed.
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O
(Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
though this may be correct, it does not "completely change the flavor"
the butane in the BIC is refined as all butane is. the impurities are way less than a standard cedar match that has been handled by human hands. and in the article you used (wikipedia) it states "When oxygen is plentiful...' and O2 is plentiful, so the soot issue is not much of a problem.
seriously, stop telling people that BIC lighters suck because they are not a torch. im sure you cant tell the difference between a cigar lit by a bic and one lit by a torch by taste alone. i know i cant. i seriously doubt anyone can, even the most refined palates in the world.
Xikar produces a soft flame that burns cleaner than a BIC (especially if you use their fuel) if you are worried.
i am all about being fanatical about cigars, and i am all about trying to get the best that i can from them. but this is a bit crazy. a simple demonstration can show this: 1) obtain a torch lighter and a BIC lighter 2) light the bic and wait about 5 seconds and smell the air about a foot above the flame. 3) do the same with the torch. 4) compare the smell.
i just did exactly this. they smell EXACTLY the same. there is not even a difference in intensity.
the minute amount of impurities in butane in a lighter get easily overpowered by the cigar itself. the TINY amount of leftover butane (if there actually is any (i still have yet to see proof that there is) is so small that there is little to no effect on the flavor.
the Zippo on the other hand is a different ball game. the smell of the fuel is VERY strong. it also does not burn as clean as the "dirtiest" butane lighter.
long story short: BICs and other soft flame lighters are 100% safe on cigars and do not impart taste.
Kuzi, thanks for cleaning up my mistake, yes I grabbed Wiki for the equation, however I referenced my college chemistry textbooks for the theory. I'm a bit of a science dorkus especially when it comes to cigars and trying to only taste the tobacco and not the chemicals from lighting it. Meant no offense to anyone nor did I try to talk over what I have learned or knew. I apologize. -- Brett
"When oxygen is plentiful, butane burns to form carbon dioxide and water vapor; when oxygen is limited, carbon (soot) or carbon monoxide may also be formed.
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O
(Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
though this may be correct, it does not "completely change the flavor"
the butane in the BIC is refined as all butane is. the impurities are way less than a standard cedar match that has been handled by human hands. and in the article you used (wikipedia) it states "When oxygen is plentiful...' and O2 is plentiful, so the soot issue is not much of a problem.
seriously, stop telling people that BIC lighters suck because they are not a torch. im sure you cant tell the difference between a cigar lit by a bic and one lit by a torch by taste alone. i know i cant. i seriously doubt anyone can, even the most refined palates in the world.
Xikar produces a soft flame that burns cleaner than a BIC (especially if you use their fuel) if you are worried.
i am all about being fanatical about cigars, and i am all about trying to get the best that i can from them. but this is a bit crazy. a simple demonstration can show this: 1) obtain a torch lighter and a BIC lighter 2) light the bic and wait about 5 seconds and smell the air about a foot above the flame. 3) do the same with the torch. 4) compare the smell.
i just did exactly this. they smell EXACTLY the same. there is not even a difference in intensity.
the minute amount of impurities in butane in a lighter get easily overpowered by the cigar itself. the TINY amount of leftover butane (if there actually is any (i still have yet to see proof that there is) is so small that there is little to no effect on the flavor.
the Zippo on the other hand is a different ball game. the smell of the fuel is VERY strong. it also does not burn as clean as the "dirtiest" butane lighter.
long story short: BICs and other soft flame lighters are 100% safe on cigars and do not impart taste.
Kuzi, thanks for cleaning up my mistake, yes I grabbed Wiki for the equation, however I referenced my college chemistry textbooks for the theory. I'm a bit of a science dorkus especially when it comes to cigars and trying to only taste the tobacco and not the chemicals from lighting it. Meant no offense to anyone nor did I try to talk over what I have learned or knew. I apologize. -- Brett
no need to apologize. you were taking a scientific approach to a difficult question. and to tell the truth, i learned something myself.
butane is just very clean, even unburned.
i do find it interesting the amount of difference in heat put out in a torch vs soft flame. i knew there was a difference but i had no idea it was that much. what causes the drastic difference? is it the force of the fuel? the O2 mix? and does a large torch or triple torch burn hotter than a small or single one?
and for the zippo question two posts up... ever smell a zippo? the liquid based fuel is stinky as all hell. i usesd to use own a zippo long before cigars were a part of my life. when i filled it, my hands stunk for the rest of the day because of the fuel.
"When oxygen is plentiful, butane burns to form carbon dioxide and water vapor; when oxygen is limited, carbon (soot) or carbon monoxide may also be formed.
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O
(Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
though this may be correct, it does not "completely change the flavor"
the butane in the BIC is refined as all butane is. the impurities are way less than a standard cedar match that has been handled by human hands. and in the article you used (wikipedia) it states "When oxygen is plentiful...' and O2 is plentiful, so the soot issue is not much of a problem.
seriously, stop telling people that BIC lighters suck because they are not a torch. im sure you cant tell the difference between a cigar lit by a bic and one lit by a torch by taste alone. i know i cant. i seriously doubt anyone can, even the most refined palates in the world.
Xikar produces a soft flame that burns cleaner than a BIC (especially if you use their fuel) if you are worried.
i am all about being fanatical about cigars, and i am all about trying to get the best that i can from them. but this is a bit crazy. a simple demonstration can show this: 1) obtain a torch lighter and a BIC lighter 2) light the bic and wait about 5 seconds and smell the air about a foot above the flame. 3) do the same with the torch. 4) compare the smell.
i just did exactly this. they smell EXACTLY the same. there is not even a difference in intensity.
the minute amount of impurities in butane in a lighter get easily overpowered by the cigar itself. the TINY amount of leftover butane (if there actually is any (i still have yet to see proof that there is) is so small that there is little to no effect on the flavor.
the Zippo on the other hand is a different ball game. the smell of the fuel is VERY strong. it also does not burn as clean as the "dirtiest" butane lighter.
long story short: BICs and other soft flame lighters are 100% safe on cigars and do not impart taste.
Kuzi, thanks for cleaning up my mistake, yes I grabbed Wiki for the equation, however I referenced my college chemistry textbooks for the theory. I'm a bit of a science dorkus especially when it comes to cigars and trying to only taste the tobacco and not the chemicals from lighting it. Meant no offense to anyone nor did I try to talk over what I have learned or knew. I apologize. -- Brett
no need to apologize. you were taking a scientific approach to a difficult question. and to tell the truth, i learned something myself.
butane is just very clean, even unburned.
i do find it interesting the amount of difference in heat put out in a torch vs soft flame. i knew there was a difference but i had no idea it was that much. what causes the drastic difference? is it the force of the fuel? the O2 mix? and does a large torch or triple torch burn hotter than a small or single one?
and for the zippo question two posts up... ever smell a zippo? the liquid based fuel is stinky as all hell. i usesd to use own a zippo long before cigars were a part of my life. when i filled it, my hands stunk for the rest of the day because of the fuel.
As for the single vs. double vs. triple torch I will do more digging but I cannot say anything for sure. The main reason is the pressure that the fuel comes out at/burned at... much much much higher which means (I believe) that it will burn with a much larger amount of the oxidizer (atmosphere)... its in a very loose way the same basic principle of an automotive engine as well... superchargers, turbochargers, and Nitrous Oxide all do the same thing in essence... add more air to be burned assuming there is enough fuel... just the opposite in thiscase we have plenty of air (atmosphere ie. what you are breathing right now) but not enough fuel... fuel is the smaller component and what we are trying to get more of instead of air as it is with cars.
If memory serves right Zippo is basically kerosene I believe, so that explains the smell.... back in high school I had a Zippo... left it in my pocket after filling it and went about my day... the fuel swelled with the ambient heat from my body and leaked causing a massive chemical burn on my upper thigh. Think about that being introduced to your cigar tobacco and smoking it....
The last thought I wish to impart is something I didn't consider with the BIC lighter until just a moment ago... Xikar soft flames use a lighting mechanism that is NOT flint... BICs use flint and thus introduced that impurity into the cigar as well. Point proven: light a BIC and you will see a puff of smoke/soot when it is first lit... where as you do NOT see that when you light a soft flame Xikar. Not trying to say anything other than, it is a source of impurity, granted a very minor one. -- Brett
I would think that when properly toasted you could light a cigar with just about any flame.I have lit cigars using a branch from a camp fire. As long as you do not draw the flame through the cigar.Thus introducing said chemicals.Just my personal experience.Since introducing 70% beads and a 72% Boveda pack. My 50 count has stayed for the most part at a perfect 65% for over a year now.Saying goodbye to all burn issues.Quality smokes stored in proper conditions lit properly will not dissapoint.100 ct on the way and will be outfitted the same.
Burn issues are not something I generally have to worry about... but there are some good questions raised in this thread. Maybe I can help out.
kuzi: what irish said about the torch being like a lighter with a supercharger is a pretty good way to look at it. Or you could look at it like this... a bic is like a beach ball with the plug removed, slowly letting air out, where a torch is like squeezing the ball and forcing the air out. Once the flame is lit, the faster the fuel is introduced to the air, the hotter and faster it will burn.
as far as multi flame burning hotter, each flame will not burn hotter than a single would (unless it's a more consentrated torch), however, the fact that there are 3 flames will make the surface of the flame larger (what I mean is that where you light the cigar, the flames will be creating a lighting area much larger than a single flame would). Where this is going to affect the lighting of a cigar isn't in the actual flame, it's in the amount of heat in the air directly surrounding the flame. 3 flames will cause much more air to become super heated than 1 flame would. Most of us don't light our sticks in the flame itself, but rather hovering in the super heated air directly above the flame... So, due to there being much more AIR being heated, it is far easier to accidentally scorch a cigar with a multi flame lighter because there is a lot more going on than just 3 flames... there is signifigantly more air being heated.
I don't recommend using multi flame torches for this reason... it is simply to easy to torch the wrapper. Plus, there's no need for it. If you can't light a cigar with a single torch flame, you're doing something wrong. lol
and for the record, a good toast of the foot will correct 90% of the burn problems most smokers run into, a lot of us simply don't take the time. ALSO, if you are worried about impurities, don't cut the cap until AFTER you light the cigar. This will keep air from flowing through the cigar while lighting, therefore keeping the impurities from getting into the cigar. They will simply burn off of the foot, never to be seen again...
BigT.... you git the nail on the head and said it in a much more eloquent way than I did, way to go buddy! Had never thought about lighting and THEN cutting the cap, but that is a great idea man! I think you wrapped up this issue perfectly, thank you!
Wow, this really opened up an interesting discussion, great info, guys. So, I think I got this solved pretty well at this point. I wasn't toasting fully, and I'm much better with a torch than matches. I tend to light a bit lopsided with matches. Rotating and taking the band off probably helps as well. I got a great light and burn on a LHC dos capas last night and had a great smoke. Thanks everyone for all the info!!
kuzi: what irish said about the torch being like a lighter with a supercharger is a pretty good way to look at it. Or you could look at it like this... a bic is like a beach ball with the plug removed, slowly letting air out, where a torch is like squeezing the ball and forcing the air out. Once the flame is lit, the faster the fuel is introduced to the air, the hotter and faster it will burn.
makes sense.
BigT06:
as far as multi flame burning hotter, each flame will not burn hotter than a single would (unless it's a more consentrated torch), however, the fact that there are 3 flames will make the surface of the flame larger (what I mean is that where you light the cigar, the flames will be creating a lighting area much larger than a single flame would). Where this is going to affect the lighting of a cigar isn't in the actual flame, it's in the amount of heat in the air directly surrounding the flame. 3 flames will cause much more air to become super heated than 1 flame would. Most of us don't light our sticks in the flame itself, but rather hovering in the super heated air directly above the flame... So, due to there being much more AIR being heated, it is far easier to accidentally scorch a cigar with a multi flame lighter because there is a lot more going on than just 3 flames... there is signifigantly more air being heated.
I don't recommend using multi flame torches for this reason... it is simply to easy to torch the wrapper. Plus, there's no need for it. If you can't light a cigar with a single torch flame, you're doing something wrong. lol
agreed on all accounts. i was thinking about this point yesterday while at work. this is also the reason why i have been very tempted to go to a soft flame. the light may take longer but it is way harder to have a "hot light" (as i call it) with them. the biggest downfall in my mind is that a touch up or corrective light is a bit more difficult with a soft flame. i dont wanna carry two lighters as it is. i am already carrying a travel humidor, a cutter, a lighter, and usually something to drink in addition to my usual pocket contents (keys, sharpie, pen, phone, wallet, knife, and business cards) i want to reduce the amount of *** i carry around.
BigT06:
and for the record, a good toast of the foot will correct 90% of the burn problems most smokers run into, a lot of us simply don't take the time.
again, i agree. the time to have a good toasted foot is well worth it. however, you will be the last guy in the room to get your cigar lit.
BigT06:
ALSO, if you are worried about impurities, don't cut the cap until AFTER you light the cigar. This will keep air from flowing through the cigar while lighting, therefore keeping the impurities from getting into the cigar. They will simply burn off of the foot, never to be seen again...
hope that helped!
another thought on the impurities... high quality fuel will not have many. and even when there are a few, butane is so "clean" by the nature of it that you will hardly notice. even unburned butane has very little smell. im not sure i have ever tasted it so i cant comment on that. im not sure i want to. i mean, it does say on the can not to concentrate and inhale.
in high school we called things like butane "brain-off" because it would shut your brain down for a few moments when huffed. we made fun of the people that thought it was cool. im fairly sure it shut down parts of their brain on a permanent basis, making our in-the-moment nick-name a bit more appropo
this is the kind of thread that i love to read and be a part of. this is the reason why i like this forum. as stated before i am a perpetual newbie, and i am always learning something... ... much like i did in this thread.
also rotate them in you humidor. the band does not have to be facing up.
showing my ignorance - but why do they need to be rotated in the humi?
sorry i missed this the first go round... i rotate in my humidor a bit. im not as anal as i have heard others be about it. basically, the cigars are not evenly exposed to humidity in the humidor. the ones on the top, if perpetually there will be exposed to more dry air on the top side than the bottom due to opening and closing of the humidor. the ones next to the humidification device will be a bit more moist on the side that faces the humidification device. that effects the burn. i turn them every now and again (maybe every 6 months or so at most if i am not feeling lazy) to help combat this. it doesnt make that much of a difference, but it makes me feel good. i have found this to be most true in a travel humidor that has a tube style humidification device that is place in a slot that a cigar would go. the air flow is very restricted in there. one side will always burn faster after a weekend in my travel humidor if i but that tube-style humidifier in there. i have recently stopped using one because the travel humi has such a good seal that they hold RH and burn fine without it for over a week in the spring, summer and fall. the winter is a different ball game. still workin on that one.
I guess I'm too lazy for the rotating stuff so I made shelves for my coolidor out of 1/4 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh) and I put a small muffin-type fan out of a computer and hooked it to a timer to run the fan periodically and move the air around in the coolidor. Seems to work just fine for me.
I guess I'm too lazy for the rotating stuff so I made shelves for my coolidor out of 1/4 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh) and I put a small muffin-type fan out of a computer and hooked it to a timer to run the fan periodically and move the air around in the coolidor. Seems to work just fine for me.
nice. some year i will make my own humidor. this is one of the features that it will have. a little over 2 years ago there was a great discussion about custom humidors. HERE IT IS for those who are interested
I guess I'm too lazy for the rotating stuff so I made shelves for my coolidor out of 1/4 inch hardware cloth (wire mesh) and I put a small muffin-type fan out of a computer and hooked it to a timer to run the fan periodically and move the air around in the coolidor. Seems to work just fine for me.
I've been thinking of doing something along those lines. I've been trying to find an Oust fan to set up in mine... but no luck. Guess I'll have to order one off the internet...
If you're interested, I think I've got another of those fans out in my shop somewhere. I believe it runs on 13v DC but will work on less - as will most any DC motor. Let me know if you want it.
If you're interested, I think I've got another of those fans out in my shop somewhere. I believe it runs on 13v DC but will work on less - as will most any DC motor. Let me know if you want it.
Thank you very much for the offer. I've actually got access to a fan, I just don't know how to wire it and program it on a timer... that's why I was thinking the oust fan would prob work better for me...?
Give me the specifics of the one you have and I'll shoot you a sketch of how to wire it and hook it up. Mainly, I'll need the voltage and size. Is it AC or DC?, etc.
Comments
2 C4H10 + 13 O2 ? 8 CO2 + 10 H2O (Butane, also called n-butane, is the unbranched alkane with four carbon atoms, CH3 CH2 CH2 CH3 = C4H10 = butane)"
The difference between the BIC (above formula) and the butane TORCH is that the torch is under MUCH higher pressure and burns MUCH hotter = "Provided your backyard lighter flame is free of contaminants that might skew the color, a slightly lean violet-blue flame is the hottest. Blue-violet = high frequency = high energy = high temperature. A white flame has its visible radiation energy spread out more evenly across the spectrum and isn't peaking on the high-energy blue end. That indicates lower overall energy, and thus lower temperature, than a blue flame." Torches are "blue" flames while your average BIC is a yellow flame (because it does include some contaminants).
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even though it is both butane the BIC burns at such a lower temp (1200 degrees F AVG) while the torch burns much much hotter (3600 degrees F AVG). This means that it is a MUCH more complete burn and combustion producing much lower amounts of by-products such as soot and "leftover" un-burned chemicals (ie un-burned butane). If any of what I said is off kilter with anyone feel free to ask and I can clarify or succeed that I am incorrect or wrong etc.
Thanks for listening Gents, this is the best I can do -- Brett
FYI.. no idea what boom roasted...literally means... might have accidentally been a typo and not recognized yet, can't say for sure though
the butane in the BIC is refined as all butane is. the impurities are way less than a standard cedar match that has been handled by human hands. and in the article you used (wikipedia) it states "When oxygen is plentiful...' and O2 is plentiful, so the soot issue is not much of a problem.
seriously, stop telling people that BIC lighters suck because they are not a torch. im sure you cant tell the difference between a cigar lit by a bic and one lit by a torch by taste alone. i know i cant. i seriously doubt anyone can, even the most refined palates in the world.
Xikar produces a soft flame that burns cleaner than a BIC (especially if you use their fuel) if you are worried.
i am all about being fanatical about cigars, and i am all about trying to get the best that i can from them. but this is a bit crazy.
a simple demonstration can show this:
1) obtain a torch lighter and a BIC lighter
2) light the bic and wait about 5 seconds and smell the air about a foot above the flame.
3) do the same with the torch.
4) compare the smell.
i just did exactly this. they smell EXACTLY the same. there is not even a difference in intensity.
the minute amount of impurities in butane in a lighter get easily overpowered by the cigar itself. the TINY amount of leftover butane (if there actually is any (i still have yet to see proof that there is) is so small that there is little to no effect on the flavor.
the Zippo on the other hand is a different ball game. the smell of the fuel is VERY strong. it also does not burn as clean as the "dirtiest" butane lighter.
long story short: BICs and other soft flame lighters are 100% safe on cigars and do not impart taste.
you were taking a scientific approach to a difficult question. and to tell the truth, i learned something myself.
butane is just very clean, even unburned.
i do find it interesting the amount of difference in heat put out in a torch vs soft flame. i knew there was a difference but i had no idea it was that much. what causes the drastic difference? is it the force of the fuel? the O2 mix? and does a large torch or triple torch burn hotter than a small or single one?
and for the zippo question two posts up...
ever smell a zippo?
the liquid based fuel is stinky as all hell.
i usesd to use own a zippo long before cigars were a part of my life. when i filled it, my hands stunk for the rest of the day because of the fuel.
If memory serves right Zippo is basically kerosene I believe, so that explains the smell.... back in high school I had a Zippo... left it in my pocket after filling it and went about my day... the fuel swelled with the ambient heat from my body and leaked causing a massive chemical burn on my upper thigh. Think about that being introduced to your cigar tobacco and smoking it....
The last thought I wish to impart is something I didn't consider with the BIC lighter until just a moment ago... Xikar soft flames use a lighting mechanism that is NOT flint... BICs use flint and thus introduced that impurity into the cigar as well. Point proven: light a BIC and you will see a puff of smoke/soot when it is first lit... where as you do NOT see that when you light a soft flame Xikar. Not trying to say anything other than, it is a source of impurity, granted a very minor one. -- Brett
kuzi: what irish said about the torch being like a lighter with a supercharger is a pretty good way to look at it. Or you could look at it like this... a bic is like a beach ball with the plug removed, slowly letting air out, where a torch is like squeezing the ball and forcing the air out. Once the flame is lit, the faster the fuel is introduced to the air, the hotter and faster it will burn.
as far as multi flame burning hotter, each flame will not burn hotter than a single would (unless it's a more consentrated torch), however, the fact that there are 3 flames will make the surface of the flame larger (what I mean is that where you light the cigar, the flames will be creating a lighting area much larger than a single flame would). Where this is going to affect the lighting of a cigar isn't in the actual flame, it's in the amount of heat in the air directly surrounding the flame. 3 flames will cause much more air to become super heated than 1 flame would. Most of us don't light our sticks in the flame itself, but rather hovering in the super heated air directly above the flame... So, due to there being much more AIR being heated, it is far easier to accidentally scorch a cigar with a multi flame lighter because there is a lot more going on than just 3 flames... there is signifigantly more air being heated.
I don't recommend using multi flame torches for this reason... it is simply to easy to torch the wrapper. Plus, there's no need for it. If you can't light a cigar with a single torch flame, you're doing something wrong. lol
and for the record, a good toast of the foot will correct 90% of the burn problems most smokers run into, a lot of us simply don't take the time. ALSO, if you are worried about impurities, don't cut the cap until AFTER you light the cigar. This will keep air from flowing through the cigar while lighting, therefore keeping the impurities from getting into the cigar. They will simply burn off of the foot, never to be seen again...
hope that helped!
i want to reduce the amount of *** i carry around. again, i agree. the time to have a good toasted foot is well worth it. however, you will be the last guy in the room to get your cigar lit. another thought on the impurities...
high quality fuel will not have many. and even when there are a few, butane is so "clean" by the nature of it that you will hardly notice. even unburned butane has very little smell. im not sure i have ever tasted it so i cant comment on that. im not sure i want to. i mean, it does say on the can not to concentrate and inhale.
in high school we called things like butane "brain-off" because it would shut your brain down for a few moments when huffed. we made fun of the people that thought it was cool. im fairly sure it shut down parts of their brain on a permanent basis, making our in-the-moment nick-name a bit more appropo
this is the kind of thread that i love to read and be a part of. this is the reason why i like this forum. as stated before i am a perpetual newbie, and i am always learning something...
... much like i did in this thread.
i rotate in my humidor a bit. im not as anal as i have heard others be about it. basically, the cigars are not evenly exposed to humidity in the humidor. the ones on the top, if perpetually there will be exposed to more dry air on the top side than the bottom due to opening and closing of the humidor. the ones next to the humidification device will be a bit more moist on the side that faces the humidification device. that effects the burn. i turn them every now and again (maybe every 6 months or so at most if i am not feeling lazy) to help combat this. it doesnt make that much of a difference, but it makes me feel good.
i have found this to be most true in a travel humidor that has a tube style humidification device that is place in a slot that a cigar would go. the air flow is very restricted in there. one side will always burn faster after a weekend in my travel humidor if i but that tube-style humidifier in there. i have recently stopped using one because the travel humi has such a good seal that they hold RH and burn fine without it for over a week in the spring, summer and fall. the winter is a different ball game. still workin on that one.
a little over 2 years ago there was a great discussion about custom humidors. HERE IT IS for those who are interested