I am definitely a SIG guy... My daily carry is either one of my 229's (yes, I have several) or my 220. You can find some really smoking deals on used ones, I've never paid over 500 for one. I normally carry the 229 in .40, but can swap to.357SIG just with a barrel change and also have the .22 conversion for it. If I wanted to shoot 9mm, there is a conversion barrel available for that as well. Nice to be able to shoot multiple calibers from one platform, especially if you are in a state that limits what you can own or if you have to have your carry gun listed on your permit. (not here, thankfully - we can even open carry without a permit at all).
Taurus has had a few winners. My shooting buddy's daily carry is (usually) a Taurus 1911 which has been an absolutely flawless performer.
Performance Center revolvers from Smith & Wesson? I've had a chance to fire a couple in .357mag and they are very, very nice. The trigger is fabulous. Pricey, but they should definitely fit your budget.
Another steel framed pistol to consider would be something from Sig Sauer. They make a SWEET version of the 226 with a 1911-style SA trigger and safety. It weighs about 10 pounds, and shoots like a dream. Jet funnel, large mag capacity. Forget carrying it, but wow does that baby shoot really nicely. Or just go with one of the many other versions of the 226 or 229 in a steel frame. For a slightly lighter version, they make an alloy frame in the 226, 229, and 220. Should run under $1000 for many of the production versions. The super-duper 226 that I can't remember the name of as I recall runs in the $1500 range.
Will definitely check out the S&W and rented a SIG at the local range. It was a 226. Thought it was a very nice pistol.
I am definitely a SIG guy... My daily carry is either one of my 229's (yes, I have several) or my 220. You can find some really smoking deals on used ones, I've never paid over 500 for one. I normally carry the 229 in .40, but can swap to.357SIG just with a barrel change and also have the .22 conversion for it. If I wanted to shoot 9mm, there is a conversion barrel available for that as well. Nice to be able to shoot multiple calibers from one platform, especially if you are in a state that limits what you can own or if you have to have your carry gun listed on your permit. (not here, thankfully - we can even open carry without a permit at all).
Taurus has had a few winners. My shooting buddy's daily carry is (usually) a Taurus 1911 which has been an absolutely flawless performer.
I remember you being a SIG guy. I've got a 228 made in Germany - just an awesome pistol. I have had a chance to train with a friend of mine who has a 220 (.45acp for the non-SIG lovers out there) and it is one of my favorite .45s to shoot. Very well balanced, and very controllable.
While I'm glad your friend enjoys his Taurus, I'd really recommend nearly much any other company in general. I believe I speak for pretty much the entire firearms community in saying that anything made by Glock, SIG, S&W, H&K, Ruger, Springfield and many others make Taurus look like they are produced by a couple of monkeys in the back of a gunshop. As you said yourself, you can pick up used firearms for so cheap these days - why compromise on quality?
Well I didn't want to start a whole new conversation on handguns, so I hope TheHoff will forgive me for jacking his. I remember reading this whole thread when the conversation was active, but I can't recall any mention of Hi-Points and I didn't want to reread the whole thing...
So I've been to a few different gun shops, and I've had good and bad shopping experiences. Rather unanimously at these shops, however, is a distaste for Hi-Point guns. Now, I understand that every market has its entry-level and its bargain-basement, and Hi-Points seem to be priced along these lines compared to other makes, but where that does that really put it? I've never fired a handgun, and I really don't know much about them, but I don't exactly have a high price point to start with. I found this Hi-Point .40S&W, and from appearances and reviews on the site, it seems like a perfectly acceptable gun to start with. Thoughts?
I actually owned a hi point so i've seen both sides of the fence. I shot my buddies (in 9mm) and loved it, cheap, fairly accurate(not a national match gun but it'll hit what youre shoting at), cycled pretty smooth and for the price...hell i was sold. So i bought one of my own, couldnt hit the broadside of a telephoe book, stove piped avery 5th round and misfed every 10th or so. I think hi point has real quality control problems. "IF" you get a good one, they are pretty good value. But all in all i wouldnt on the off chance you get a bad one. Just my .02
I'd have to agree with that. If I were looking for a bargain priced, not used, handgun, I'd take a long look at the Bersas. They have a pretty good rep for reliability and are reasonably priced as well.
Well I didn't want to start a whole new conversation on handguns, so I hope TheHoff will forgive me for jacking his. I remember reading this whole thread when the conversation was active, but I can't recall any mention of Hi-Points and I didn't want to reread the whole thing...
So I've been to a few different gun shops, and I've had good and bad shopping experiences. Rather unanimously at these shops, however, is a distaste for Hi-Point guns. Now, I understand that every market has its entry-level and its bargain-basement, and Hi-Points seem to be priced along these lines compared to other makes, but where that does that really put it? I've never fired a handgun, and I really don't know much about them, but I don't exactly have a high price point to start with. I found this Hi-Point .40S&W, and from appearances and reviews on the site, it seems like a perfectly acceptable gun to start with. Thoughts?
I will rejoin the thread now that it is a different topic. As a beginner, I would stay away from a Hi-Pointe and .40 cal for a few reasons. Hi-points are spotty at best. Not just inaccurate and rough functioning, but as I have pointed out before have suffered catastrophic failure in less than 100 rounds on rare occasions. Yes, it is unlikely, but would you buy a cheap car where rarely the engine blew up within a month of purchase?
There is nothing "wrong" with the .40, however it has relatively forceful AND snappy recoil. it is no magnum, but it has more PERCEIVED recoil than either 9mm or .45. If it is to be used for SD, and shot timers don't lie, a 9mm or .45 is going to give you better splits and hits are more important than caliber as, as I have also said before, all handgun calibers suck about the same as far as stopping someone. If it is just for a plinker, .40 is almost twice as expensive per round as 9mm and many times more expensive than .22. If someone is determined to get a centerfire handgun as a first handgun I will always recommend a good 9mm. If they're open to suggestions I would encourage then to look at .22. If you go with any centerfire handgun, the key to not developing bad habits is a good dryfire regimen. As I have offered before, if you would like some information on good dryfire practice, PM me.
If you're paying twice as much for .40 you're shopping in the wrong places. I'm only paying about ten bucks more per 1K for .40 over 9mm. That's a penny per round. Just had another 1K each of .40 and .45 delivered.
Most new shooters are not buying by the case. However, with 9mm, people who buy by the box can basically get case pricing on brass-cased, reloadable ammo when they buy single boxes. I don't recall seeing quality brass-cased ammo for less than $10/50 in .40 recently even when buying by the case. I don't shoot it, so I don't pay as close attention to it, however. Even if they were the same price, I still think .40 is not the ideal caliber for a new shooter. A always, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
For those who DO buy in the quantities that I do, here's a good source. They are also running a free shipping special until the end of the month for qualifying purchases. http://georgia-arms.com/ammunition.aspx
Oh, yeah, almost forgot to mention that a friend offered me a job at his gun shop last week. I told him that I appreciated the offer, but I couldn't afford it!
I use GA for their Gold Dot loads on occasion. However pricing out the lowest case pricing respectively for 9mm and .40 the difference is $40/1000, not insignificant, IMO. I can also buy boxes of 115gr. 9mm for just under $10 each, giving a lower price than case pricing for GA's FMJ loadings.
As an aside, for those intersted in ammunition for social purposes, another great site to check out is www.ammotogo.com. Their stock shifts rapidly, but some great deals to be had. I got 3 boxes of 50 rounds of .38 Spl Gold Dot 135gr. +P for under $100 shipped. They also gave me a great deal on 9mm 147gr. HST. If you have a favorite load check that site regularly for it.
+1 for ammotogo. I buy in quantities that probably pi$$ off the ups guy something fierce, and they are an awesome site. I also use cheaperthandirt a lot.
aimsurplus.com is another good site for ammo, depending on what caliber you shoot. I happened to stop into my local walmart and they had a ton of 9mm for $9.50 a box. I went through 250 rounds yesterday.
Comments
Taurus has had a few winners. My shooting buddy's daily carry is (usually) a Taurus 1911 which has been an absolutely flawless performer.
While I'm glad your friend enjoys his Taurus, I'd really recommend nearly much any other company in general. I believe I speak for pretty much the entire firearms community in saying that anything made by Glock, SIG, S&W, H&K, Ruger, Springfield and many others make Taurus look like they are produced by a couple of monkeys in the back of a gunshop. As you said yourself, you can pick up used firearms for so cheap these days - why compromise on quality?
So I've been to a few different gun shops, and I've had good and bad shopping experiences. Rather unanimously at these shops, however, is a distaste for Hi-Point guns. Now, I understand that every market has its entry-level and its bargain-basement, and Hi-Points seem to be priced along these lines compared to other makes, but where that does that really put it? I've never fired a handgun, and I really don't know much about them, but I don't exactly have a high price point to start with. I found this Hi-Point .40S&W, and from appearances and reviews on the site, it seems like a perfectly acceptable gun to start with. Thoughts?
I shot a .40 a couple of weeks ago and fell in love.
There is nothing "wrong" with the .40, however it has relatively forceful AND snappy recoil. it is no magnum, but it has more PERCEIVED recoil than either 9mm or .45. If it is to be used for SD, and shot timers don't lie, a 9mm or .45 is going to give you better splits and hits are more important than caliber as, as I have also said before, all handgun calibers suck about the same as far as stopping someone. If it is just for a plinker, .40 is almost twice as expensive per round as 9mm and many times more expensive than .22. If someone is determined to get a centerfire handgun as a first handgun I will always recommend a good 9mm. If they're open to suggestions I would encourage then to look at .22. If you go with any centerfire handgun, the key to not developing bad habits is a good dryfire regimen. As I have offered before, if you would like some information on good dryfire practice, PM me.
http://georgia-arms.com/ammunition.aspx
This is a good site to track down current deals:
http://gun-deals.com/ammo
As an aside, for those intersted in ammunition for social purposes, another great site to check out is www.ammotogo.com. Their stock shifts rapidly, but some great deals to be had. I got 3 boxes of 50 rounds of .38 Spl Gold Dot 135gr. +P for under $100 shipped. They also gave me a great deal on 9mm 147gr. HST. If you have a favorite load check that site regularly for it.