ok, so I'm experimenting with retrohaling to get more out of my favorite cigars - and I'm almost vomiting every time I do it. Am I inhaling, or doing something wrong?
And even when I get it right, the smoke passes through my nose so fast, all I really get is a quick whiff - nothing lingers for me to ponder over. Is the smell supposed to last longer?
I have read this entire thread alot of great info. I had a couple quick questions though.
1) Similar to xmacro i have troubel retro hailing. So i tried letting a little float into my nose and have noticed that helps a little but i think my sense of smell is a little clogged since im always a little stuffed up. Is there a easy how to anywhere on retro hailing to limit the amount of smoke. I try to let most out but i might let to much out before i can retro.
2) where do you notice the flavors more. i dont tend to get any flavors when the smoke is in my mouth but more when i blow the smoke out.
ok, so I'm experimenting with retrohaling to get more out of my favorite cigars - and I'm almost vomiting every time I do it. Am I inhaling, or doing something wrong?
And even when I get it right, the smoke passes through my nose so fast, all I really get is a quick whiff - nothing lingers for me to ponder over. Is the smell supposed to last longer?
if you actually inhale you will know. i have only on a rare occasion accidentally inhaled. it was bad news bears. i hacked up my lungs right there. not fun stuff.
...unless you smoke cigarettes also... then its a different story.
i never had a problem with too little smoke through the nose. i had a problem with too much. since i learned about this concept while into very full bodied cigars i would get a very intense burn through the nose with no flavor at all, just pain.
if you smoke some very mild cigars you should be able to get almost ALL of the smoke through the nose with no issue.
i also dont get too many lingering flavors. this is why i go through the nose SLOWLY. i hope that helps.
I have read this entire thread alot of great info. I had a couple quick questions though.
1) Similar to xmacro i have troubel retro hailing. So i tried letting a little float into my nose and have noticed that helps a little but i think my sense of smell is a little clogged since im always a little stuffed up. Is there a easy how to anywhere on retro hailing to limit the amount of smoke. I try to let most out but i might let to much out before i can retro.
i actually let out a bit before i let it escape the mouth. this way i can regulate how much i push through the nose. with most cigars i start through the nose and continue to exhale through the mouth. so at some point smoke is going through the nose and through the mouth at the same time.
to practice this without a cigar, take a deep breath in and hold it for a moment. then start to breath out through the nose only. when 1/4 of your lungs are empty open your mouth and let air escape both. this is the "maneuver" i use to taste cigars.
RaschNuts:
2) where do you notice the flavors more. i dont tend to get any flavors when the smoke is in my mouth but more when i blow the smoke out.
this is a great question
i notice flavors in three stages and two places.
the first time i get any flavor is on the draw as i am bringing smoke into the mouth. I hold my tongue close to the front of my mouth to get smoke to flow over it. this is the initial flavor or stage one, and it is all in the mouth. the second stage of flavor comes to me as i swirl the smoke in my mouth and begin the smoke through the nose. there is a ton of flavor while blowing out the smoke. the smoke through the nose is the second place i notice flavor. the third stage of flavor is what many call the finish. all the smoke has left the mouth and nose and the flavor that you are left with is the finish.
I have read this entire thread alot of great info. I had a couple quick questions though.
1) Similar to xmacro i have troubel retro hailing. So i tried letting a little float into my nose and have noticed that helps a little but i think my sense of smell is a little clogged since im always a little stuffed up. Is there a easy how to anywhere on retro hailing to limit the amount of smoke. I try to let most out but i might let to much out before i can retro.
i actually let out a bit before i let it escape the mouth. this way i can regulate how much i push through the nose. with most cigars i start through the nose and continue to exhale through the mouth. so at some point smoke is going through the nose and through the mouth at the same time.
to practice this without a cigar, take a deep breath in and hold it for a moment. then start to breath out through the nose only. when 1/4 of your lungs are empty open your mouth and let air escape both. this is the "maneuver" i use to taste cigars.
RaschNuts:
2) where do you notice the flavors more. i dont tend to get any flavors when the smoke is in my mouth but more when i blow the smoke out.
this is a great question
i notice flavors in three stages and two places.
the first time i get any flavor is on the draw as i am bringing smoke into the mouth. I hold my tongue close to the front of my mouth to get smoke to flow over it. this is the initial flavor or stage one, and it is all in the mouth. the second stage of flavor comes to me as i swirl the smoke in my mouth and begin the smoke through the nose. there is a ton of flavor while blowing out the smoke. the smoke through the nose is the second place i notice flavor. the third stage of flavor is what many call the finish. all the smoke has left the mouth and nose and the flavor that you are left with is the finish.
there you go. Three stages, two places
Thanks. Ill try to remember this next time its warm enough out to smoke. dont really focus too much on this stuff when hanging out with other people.
I finally figured how to retrohale - kuzi's suggestion helped me figure the sensation, what I should be feeling when it happens. Now I just shove my tongue against the roof of my mouth while exhaling through my nose (I think clearlysuspect or sightunseen recommended this?) - took about an hour, but I can do it on command and it's pretty cool (still burns like hell with this RP Decade I'm smoking)
I finally figured how to retrohale - kuzi's suggestion helped me figure the sensation, what I should be feeling when it happens. Now I just shove my tongue against the roof of my mouth while exhaling through my nose (I think clearlysuspect or sightunseen recommended this?) - took about an hour, but I can do it on command and it's pretty cool (still burns like hell with this RP Decade I'm smoking)
yeah... i would stick with milder cigars for starters. after a while a DPG blue or LDF DL Maduro wont bother you at all. its a combination getting used to it and knowing how much to push through.
yea i started out with the mild cigars and now getting into medium cant wait untill i start to enjoy the full and all the flavors and taste of all cigars. great thread kuzi
I've studied to this post several times to improve my smoking experience. One question though, are the graphs at the beginning of this article copyrighted? I would like to print several for friends that enjoy cigar as well with out infringing on someone's work.
Kuzi (and everyone else who's contributed to this thread),
Great post and information. Even though I wish I could say otherwise, I'm still at the beginning stages of developing my palate and this thread has some fantastic information.
I'm looking forward to 'buying and comparing the flavors' next time I light up a cigar and am excited to see how much this helps in developing my palate.
Even though I wish I could say otherwise, I'm still at the beginning stages of developing my palate
you make it sound like its a bad thing. being new is some of the best time to smoke cigars. there is so much that it new. there are no prejudices to a particular country, maker, blender, or style. everything is wide open.
Even though I wish I could say otherwise, I'm still at the beginning stages of developing my palate
you make it sound like its a bad thing. being new is some of the best time to smoke cigars. there is so much that it new. there are no prejudices to a particular country, maker, blender, or style. everything is wide open.
You're right, it did come off as being a bad thing and that's not what I meant....I guess the only "bad" thing is that I often find it difficult to describe the taste and aroma of a stick.
I love trying new cigars (since almost everything is new to me) and I'm slowly discovering what I like and dislike. The one problem though is that I often find it hard to describe why I do or don't like a certain cigar.
I can tell you that I like the 5 Vegas Cask Strength but I find it hard to tell you why and describe what the cigar was like.
Your reference diagrams and the idea of having a similar smell/taste on hand when smoking as a reference point is excellent so then I'll hopefully be able to develop my palate and pinpoint specific tastes and smells as to why I like or dislike a cigar.
Other than that I've had nothing but great experiences with cigars since my first one about four years ago (a CAO Vision Catalyst, given to me as a gift). And I'd say that within the past two years I've become a "regular" smoker having about 1 cigar a week.
I'm loving every minute of it and looking forward to the holidays as I plan on picking up some variety samplers so I'll have more sticks to try and can work on developing my palate further.
Also, if there's any sticks that a newbie "must try," let me know.
Also, if there's any sticks that a newbie "must try," let me know.
Thanks!
Air Bender
JdN DC!!
might be a bit much for a new guy.
nah. lol
On a serious note, I feel like to many new smoker smoke only mild cigars (primarily connies) out of some sort of fear or predisposition about full bodied cigars, and it really makes them miss out on a great thing. Sometimes for years. I feel like if I would've started out smoking a huge variety of strengths and wrappers, etc, I would've discovered a lot of the gems that are now daily smokes for me (like the JdN DC) a lot sooner.
I know that nicotine is a very real thing, but you can always eat a big meal first, and wait till later in the day to fire it up if you're worried about the strength. The overwhelming FLAVOR of a full bodied cigar (speaking broadly, there are always exceptions) makes it worth the risk of the strength getting to you.
That's just me, though. The CAO Brazilla was the 2nd cigar I ever smoked, and I spent a year plus looking for something else that bold... but I was afraid to jump off the deep end... UNTIL I realized I had already jumped off into the deep end when I smoked the Brazilla... and nothing bad happened.
from the time I had that epiphany until now, I smoke whatever calls my name. No regrets thus far.
that is true, but i feel that a good handfull of mild cigars under your belt is the way to go because some people dont handle the full bodied stuff quickly. an early bad experience may keep people out of the hobby all together.
That's a good point. I guess for me the shotgun style worked when I started smoking regularly (more than once a week), throwing in cigars of varying levels of strength "just to see", but maybe a climb the ladder approach is more effective for the average new cigar smoker. Keep in mind, though, that I was also smoking almost 2 packs a day of full strength cigarettes, so I'm sure that helped give me a nicotine cushion that made full bodied cigars have less of a dramatic impact on me.
So I guess, in hindsight, if you are new to cigars, be smart... but don't be scared. If you are new to nicotine all together, maybe a little caution isn't a bad thing. lol
I've been doing the shotgun style and am not afraid to try any full strength cigars...I'd say that Man O' War and Graycliff 1666 are some of my favorites I've tried so far.
I was even daring enough to try the Cu-Avana Punisher about 2 months ago and wow! that was an experience. I definitely want to try this one again, the chili spice and numbing effect to my mouth really blew me away and it was such a unique experience. The initial strength of the spice caught me off guard but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Also, thanks for the suggestions Kuzi and BigT. I've added these to my "wish list" and will pick up a couple of each next time I place an order.
great thread kuzi. glad it got revived. I can't wait to start developing my palate using these tips. I'm right where Alex pointed out, I like some cigars, and dislike some, but really can't tell why flavor wise. The tips on exhaling, etc. I'll definitely work on. I 'm gonna get a little notepad to write down details, thoughts for each cigar. It'd be neat to see my initial notes further on in the future.
whenever this finds it way to the top i find myself re-reading the original post. i almost always want to make changes. this time i want to add in that you should know what you are looking for in two ways. 1) how it was mentioned in the original article. read may reviews look for common threads in them and look for them in the cigar. 2) (this on, IMHO is more important) become very familiar with common flavors in cigars: Coffee, Leather, Musk, earth, wood, nuts, licorice, etc... the more smells/tastes that you know, the better that you will be able to pick them out.
Even though I wish I could say otherwise, I'm still at the beginning stages of developing my palate
you make it sound like its a bad thing. being new is some of the best time to smoke cigars. there is so much that it new. there are no prejudices to a particular country, maker, blender, or style. everything is wide open.
Definitely. Picking up some of those more obscure flavors for the first time or finally connecting with the description of a cigar someone else wrote and being able to relate it to your experience, those are super rewarding moments.
Comments
And even when I get it right, the smoke passes through my nose so fast, all I really get is a quick whiff - nothing lingers for me to ponder over. Is the smell supposed to last longer?
1) Similar to xmacro i have troubel retro hailing. So i tried letting a little float into my nose and have noticed that helps a little but i think my sense of smell is a little clogged since im always a little stuffed up. Is there a easy how to anywhere on retro hailing to limit the amount of smoke. I try to let most out but i might let to much out before i can retro.
2) where do you notice the flavors more. i dont tend to get any flavors when the smoke is in my mouth but more when i blow the smoke out.
i have only on a rare occasion accidentally inhaled. it was bad news bears. i hacked up my lungs right there. not fun stuff.
...unless you smoke cigarettes also... then its a different story.
i never had a problem with too little smoke through the nose. i had a problem with too much. since i learned about this concept while into very full bodied cigars i would get a very intense burn through the nose with no flavor at all, just pain.
if you smoke some very mild cigars you should be able to get almost ALL of the smoke through the nose with no issue.
i also dont get too many lingering flavors. this is why i go through the nose SLOWLY.
i hope that helps.
to practice this without a cigar, take a deep breath in and hold it for a moment. then start to breath out through the nose only. when 1/4 of your lungs are empty open your mouth and let air escape both.
this is the "maneuver" i use to taste cigars.
this is a great question
i notice flavors in three stages and two places.
the first time i get any flavor is on the draw as i am bringing smoke into the mouth. I hold my tongue close to the front of my mouth to get smoke to flow over it.
this is the initial flavor or stage one, and it is all in the mouth.
the second stage of flavor comes to me as i swirl the smoke in my mouth and begin the smoke through the nose. there is a ton of flavor while blowing out the smoke. the smoke through the nose is the second place i notice flavor.
the third stage of flavor is what many call the finish. all the smoke has left the mouth and nose and the flavor that you are left with is the finish.
there you go. Three stages, two places
ive seen them in a few different places. i doubt they are copyrighted.
Great post and information. Even though I wish I could say otherwise, I'm still at the beginning stages of developing my palate and this thread has some fantastic information.
I'm looking forward to 'buying and comparing the flavors' next time I light up a cigar and am excited to see how much this helps in developing my palate.
You're right, it did come off as being a bad thing and that's not what I meant....I guess the only "bad" thing is that I often find it difficult to describe the taste and aroma of a stick.
I love trying new cigars (since almost everything is new to me) and I'm slowly discovering what I like and dislike. The one problem though is that I often find it hard to describe why I do or don't like a certain cigar.
I can tell you that I like the 5 Vegas Cask Strength but I find it hard to tell you why and describe what the cigar was like.
Your reference diagrams and the idea of having a similar smell/taste on hand when smoking as a reference point is excellent so then I'll hopefully be able to develop my palate and pinpoint specific tastes and smells as to why I like or dislike a cigar.
Other than that I've had nothing but great experiences with cigars since my first one about four years ago (a CAO Vision Catalyst, given to me as a gift). And I'd say that within the past two years I've become a "regular" smoker having about 1 cigar a week.
I'm loving every minute of it and looking forward to the holidays as I plan on picking up some variety samplers so I'll have more sticks to try and can work on developing my palate further.
Also, if there's any sticks that a newbie "must try," let me know.
Thanks!
On a serious note, I feel like to many new smoker smoke only mild cigars (primarily connies) out of some sort of fear or predisposition about full bodied cigars, and it really makes them miss out on a great thing. Sometimes for years. I feel like if I would've started out smoking a huge variety of strengths and wrappers, etc, I would've discovered a lot of the gems that are now daily smokes for me (like the JdN DC) a lot sooner.
I know that nicotine is a very real thing, but you can always eat a big meal first, and wait till later in the day to fire it up if you're worried about the strength. The overwhelming FLAVOR of a full bodied cigar (speaking broadly, there are always exceptions) makes it worth the risk of the strength getting to you.
That's just me, though. The CAO Brazilla was the 2nd cigar I ever smoked, and I spent a year plus looking for something else that bold... but I was afraid to jump off the deep end... UNTIL I realized I had already jumped off into the deep end when I smoked the Brazilla... and nothing bad happened.
from the time I had that epiphany until now, I smoke whatever calls my name. No regrets thus far.
So I guess, in hindsight, if you are new to cigars, be smart... but don't be scared. If you are new to nicotine all together, maybe a little caution isn't a bad thing. lol
I was even daring enough to try the Cu-Avana Punisher about 2 months ago and wow! that was an experience. I definitely want to try this one again, the chili spice and numbing effect to my mouth really blew me away and it was such a unique experience. The initial strength of the spice caught me off guard but I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Also, thanks for the suggestions Kuzi and BigT. I've added these to my "wish list" and will pick up a couple of each next time I place an order.
this time i want to add in that you should know what you are looking for in two ways.
1) how it was mentioned in the original article. read may reviews look for common threads in them and look for them in the cigar.
2) (this on, IMHO is more important) become very familiar with common flavors in cigars: Coffee, Leather, Musk, earth, wood, nuts, licorice, etc...
the more smells/tastes that you know, the better that you will be able to pick them out.
Great read. Thanks Justin for recommending it!