The Pros and Cons of Maduro

dtrdwngs · December 2008

Ok, I am looking for some insight here from the vast wealth of knowledge here on this forum. Let me know what you like and dislike about Maduros. Thanks

phobicsquirrel · December 2008

I find them to be just like any other cigar, it all depends. I like the strength some of them have, I like the dark wrapper, sometimes they are more complex, but I do not love the strong/overpowering pepperish flavor that I have got off some of them.

Jetmech_63 · December 2008

phobicsquirrel:
I do not love the strong/overpowering pepperish flavor that I have got off some of them.

And yet some go to the other end of the spectrum. There is strong and peppery like CAO VR, or smooth, rich and flavorful like the Oliva G, Onyx or Cusano 18. I love maduros! I think they have a flavor and richness that leaves me wanting more.

gmill880 · December 2008

I too love the maduro's- have had very few I didn't like

urbino · December 2008

I can't really think of anything I dislike about maduros in general. Like any other wrapper, there are some cigars in that wrapper that I like, and some I don't. My current favorite maduros are probably the Monte Media Noche, Cusano 18 Paired, Sancho Panza Dbl., RP Fusion Dbl., and 5 Vegas Series A.

There have been some maduros that have left me unimpressed, but right now I can't remember what they were.

kuzi16 · December 2008

from a blenders point of view there are pros and cons to Maduros.

Pros: a nice sweet chocolaty taste.

indifferent: the strength of the tobacco is diminished a bit.

Cons:
there are a few...
the Maduro process is very hard on tobacco. The tobacco is harvested and baled very tightly. the pressure creates heat and the inner leaves begin to cook a bit. since there is no pressure on the outer leaves of the bale the bales are taken apart and rebound every so often to rotate the tobacco so that all of the leaves are cured the same. all of this is very hard on a fragile natural leaf. many leaves of the bale will develop holes or discoloration that is inconsistent with the rest of the bale or it will darken inconsistently in relation to itself. those leaves cannot be used as wrapper leaf because of those imperfections. they then must be either wasted or used in other ways. Traditionally, Maduro leaves are not used in binder and filler (with a few exceptions: Mx2, Triple Maduro...) but this is the other way that inperfect looking maduro leaves can be used.
this brings me to the next "Con"...
the leaf itself must be strong. the stronger the leaf, the less waste you will have from the maduro process. this limmits your choice of leaf a bit. It isnt impossible to maduro anything it just creates more waste and thus less profit. Most often a good Connecticut seed Broadleaf wrapper quality leaf will produce a good maduro, almost regardless of where it is grown. this leaf is thicker and stronger and has a good stretch to it. these are all good qualities when it comes to being a wrapper leaf. on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)

all in all, Maduro cigars are just another form of cigar... and either you like em or you dont.

i do.

and dont confuse Maduro with Oscuro!!

CC blending 101

kaspera79 · December 2008

... I believe that about sums it up.. Great job Kuzi.

madurofan · December 2008

As always kuzi's post is informative and well researched. That about answers your question. However, kuzi, I have to disagree with "you either like them or you don't". Every maduro is different and I do not know many people that like no maduros or like all maduros. Well besides a few snobs that only smoke Davidoffs and Avos.

phobicsquirrel · December 2008

are you calling me a snob!? hehe, I can be..

Kuzi, once again your skills with google are fantastic, or unless your head is a hard drive of cigar know-how.. lol

urbino · December 2008

Every now and then I'll read something that suggests AVOs are all really pricey, but that just hasn't been my experience. The Domaine, which is what I buy, is about $7-8 each, which is in the same range as loads of other cigars.

kaspera79 · December 2008

urbino:
Every now and then I'll read something that suggests AVOs are all really pricey, but that just hasn't been my experience. The Domaine, which is what I buy, is about $7-8 each, which is in the same range as loads of other cigars.

I agree.. I have always found AVO to be well worth the reasonable price of $7-8, and they are cheaper now than they were ten years ago when crap sold for ten bucks a stick..

Wafflebob · December 2008

Once again, have to agree with Kuzi. And as said, the wrapper isn't everything. I like most of the maduros I've smoked, but not all.

j0z3r · December 2008

I look at a maduro in much the same way that I look at a cameroon wrapper, that is to say when paired with a good blend, both can be excellent wrapper choices, when paired with a mediocre or bland blend, they can be fairly boring and not worth exploring.

kuzi16 · December 2008

phobicsquirrel:
Kuzi, once again your skills with google are fantastic, or unless your head is a hard drive of cigar know-how.. lol

a little bit of both. most of that was off the top of my head.... the reference cigars were not, however. I had to look those up (not the triple maduro)

I find that the more i do this cigar thing the less i have to google/yahoo. I also have a very extensive folder in my "favorites" on my browser with tons of pages and articles that i have read over the years of cigar research. Im getting very near to the point of having to take botany classes to learn more. it is fairly hard to find online the things that i want to learn...
such as:
How do different minerals change the taste and in what way?
what minerals are in different soils in different countries?
If all other conditions were the same, would altitude effect the flavor of a tobacco plant?

I am also looking for more information on different strains of tobacco, their flavor profiles, how they were developed.

I am an information sponge when it comes to things like this. ( read: things that i love and have passion about)

madurofan:
However, kuzi, I have to disagree with "you either like them or you don't". Every maduro is different and I do not know many people that like no maduros or like all maduros. Well besides a few snobs that only smoke Davidoffs and Avos.

I agree with your disagreement. I need to be less casual about things like that. There are maduros that I like and maduros that I dont like.

I should have said "either they work on a particular cigar or they dont."

madurofan · December 2008

kuzi16:
I should have said "either they work on a particular cigar or they dont."

Now that I agree with. Speaking of which,kuz, have you seen a maduro of something other than conn seed?

kuzi16 · December 2008

kuzi16:
... on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)

If im not mistaken (off the top of my head here) the 5 vegas series uses a costa rican maduro... though im unsure of the seed.

... not grown in connecticut though.

Bad Andy · December 2008

side bar...
Kuz
What is the difference between Corojo and Criollo? (CAO Criollo mmmm) Are they just 2 different seeds from Cuba...
Thanks.

kuzi16 · December 2008

The Criollo strain can be documented all the way back to Columbus’s visits to the Caribbean. It is the classic Cuban tobacco. It is rich and round in flavor with a spice to it. The Corojo tobacco plant is a derivation of the Criollo. It was created in Cuba through natural selection to resist mold. The taste is a bit more barnyard (in a good way) and it still has a spice to it.

j0z3r · December 2008

kuzi16:
kuzi16:
... on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)
If im not mistaken (off the top of my head here) the 5 vegas series uses a costa rican maduro... though im unsure of the seed.

... not grown in connecticut though.

Gurkha also utilizes a Costa Rican grown maduro leaf on the Titan, though no mention of the seed. And the Padilla Obsidian uses a Nicaraguan ligero maduro wrapper, from the taste I'd guess it is a Nicaraguan habano leaf, though I can't be sure.

urbino · January 2009

Gurkha uses that same leaf on the Fuerte, I think, though, overall, that cigar has more flavor than the Titan.

j0z3r · January 2009

Man I hope so...I was so not impressed one bit with the Titan. I'm glad I only paid $6 for it. One of my bigger disappointments of 2008, I wanted to like it, I really did.

urbino · January 2009

Yeah, I was pretty underwhelmed by it, too. Looking at the descriptions on various sites, it's hard to see much difference between the 2 cigars. Same wrapper, Nicaraguan/Honduran filler. My taste buds tell me there is a difference, though.

bbc020 · January 2009

I too was underwhelmed by the Titan...I didn't find it to be unpleasant, but not great. That wrapper is so oily and thin, I've had two that had burn issues, with splitting and cracking. Very underwhelmed.

madurofan · January 2009

j0z3r:
kuzi16:
kuzi16:
... on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)
If im not mistaken (off the top of my head here) the 5 vegas series uses a costa rican maduro... though im unsure of the seed.

... not grown in connecticut though.
Gurkha also utilizes a Costa Rican grown maduro leaf on the Titan, though no mention of the seed. And the Padilla Obsidian uses a Nicaraguan ligero maduro wrapper, from the taste I'd guess it is a Nicaraguan habano leaf, though I can't be sure.

I'm aware that Maduros come from damn near every country but they always use Conneticut seed, as best I can tell.

kuzi16 · January 2009

madurofan:
j0z3r:
kuzi16:
kuzi16:
... on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)
If im not mistaken (off the top of my head here) the 5 vegas series uses a costa rican maduro... though im unsure of the seed.

... not grown in connecticut though.
Gurkha also utilizes a Costa Rican grown maduro leaf on the Titan, though no mention of the seed. And the Padilla Obsidian uses a Nicaraguan ligero maduro wrapper, from the taste I'd guess it is a Nicaraguan habano leaf, though I can't be sure.
I'm aware that Maduros come from damn near every country but they always use Conneticut seed, as best I can tell.

ALMOST always.

madurofan · January 2009

kuzi16:
madurofan:
j0z3r:
kuzi16:
kuzi16:
... on the other side of things a Corojo is fairly thin leaf that does not endure the proscess as well. It is very rare to see a maduro corojo, though they do exist (Camacho Corojo Maduro)
If im not mistaken (off the top of my head here) the 5 vegas series uses a costa rican maduro... though im unsure of the seed.

... not grown in connecticut though.
Gurkha also utilizes a Costa Rican grown maduro leaf on the Titan, though no mention of the seed. And the Padilla Obsidian uses a Nicaraguan ligero maduro wrapper, from the taste I'd guess it is a Nicaraguan habano leaf, though I can't be sure.
I'm aware that Maduros come from damn near every country but they always use Conneticut seed, as best I can tell.
ALMOST always.

I know and I'm curious as to what they use in the ones that make it ALMOST always, y'know?

kuzi16 · January 2009

this is exactly what i was talking about a few posts back in this thread. Many retailers will be glad to tell you what country the tobacco came from but only some will tell you what seed/strain of tobacco it is. the most commonly mentioned starins are corojo, criollo, and Connecticut.

sometimes they wil tell you everything BUT the strain. For example: Honduran sun-Grown Ligero. you even know the growing conditions, and priming... but what type of tobacco is it?

I knwo that most tobacco that cigars are made from originates from cuba but does that mean that ALL tobacco is a variation of criollo? even the sumatra leaves?

iduno.

madurofan · January 2009

kuzi16:
this is exactly what i was talking about a few posts back in this thread. Many retailers will be glad to tell you what country the tobacco came from but only some will tell you what seed/strain of tobacco it is. the most commonly mentioned starins are corojo, criollo, and Connecticut.

sometimes they wil tell you everything BUT the strain. For example: Honduran sun-Grown Ligero. you even know the growing conditions, and priming... but what type of tobacco is it?

I knwo that most tobacco that cigars are made from originates from cuba but does that mean that ALL tobacco is a variation of criollo? even the sumatra leaves?

iduno.

Protecting their brand I guess.

kuzi16 · January 2009

could be. or maybe i just hit it on the head when i said "...ALL tobacco is a variation of criollo..."

madurofan · January 2009

kuzi16:
could be. or maybe i just hit it on the head when i said "...ALL tobacco is a variation of criollo..."

Quite possibly.

PuroFreak · January 2009

I've been trying and trying for the past few days to think of a "con" to maduro cigars and I FINALLY came up with one... I don't have one in my hand burning right now! haha

The Pros and Cons of Maduro

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