Beretta moving to TN

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/22/beretta-to-move-out-maryland-due-to-gun-control-laws/

A brand new manufacturing facility and 300 jobs.

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Bob Luken

That's too bad for MD. Good for TN. Restrictive laws prompt an inevitable exodus. At least for those with the means to flee. Do they still make cars in Detroit?

jd50ae

Bob Luken:
That's too bad for MD. Good for TN. Restrictive laws prompt an inevitable exodus. At least for those with the means to flee. Do they still make cars in Detroit?

Ah Detroit.....the great xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx experiment bogged down with xxxxxx and xxxxxxx politicians.

Amos Umwhat

jd50ae:
Bob Luken:
That's too bad for MD. Good for TN. Restrictive laws prompt an inevitable exodus. At least for those with the means to flee. Do they still make cars in Detroit?

Ah Detroit.....the great xxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxx experiment bogged down with xxxxxx and xxxxxxx politicians.

But they are making more and more of them in Tennessee.

jd50ae

Maybe we will get some cigar bars and brew bars or even a cigar brew bar. Come on down.

raisindot

Personally, I think the gun control law excuse is a smoke screen for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate, which I would imagine Tennessee is by comparison to MD.

Case in point? Here in Massachusetts we have among the strongest gun control laws in the country, and have had many of the same provisions that MD is proposing for a lot longer. But MA is still headquarters to several major gun manufacturers, including Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms, none of which have threatened to quit the state for more economically advantageous or less restrictive climates.

Thanatos0320

That's good news for TN

jd50ae:
Maybe we will get some cigar bars and brew bars or even a cigar brew bar. Come on down.

I think there is a cigar bar in Memphis called "Daq Cigar & Sushi Bar." I don't know if it's closed or not but I do remember hearing an advertisement for it on the radio about 1-2 years ago

Martel

Thanatos0320:
That's good news for TN
jd50ae:
Maybe we will get some cigar bars and brew bars or even a cigar brew bar. Come on down.
I think there is a cigar bar in Memphis called "Daq Cigar & Sushi Bar." I don't know if it's closed or not but I do remember hearing an advertisement for it on the radio about 1-2 years ago

I've never heard of Daq. Several lounges around and one cigar bar in Southaven. Might have to head over towards Hacks Cross and see about this. Although I don't think of pairing my cigar with sushi of all foods.

Bob Luken

raisindot:
Personally, I think the gun control law excuse is a smoke screen for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate, which I would imagine Tennessee is by comparison to MD.

Case in point? Here in Massachusetts we have among the strongest gun control laws in the country, and have had many of the same provisions that MD is proposing for a lot longer. But MA is still headquarters to several major gun manufacturers, including Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms, none of which have threatened to quit the state for more economically advantageous or less restrictive climates.

I enjoy the debate with you so please consider these questions.

I don't see any smoke screen. And why exactly do you think they would want to hide an economic decision? I was under the impression that the restrictions, and or threat of restrictive laws was obviously an economic motivation "for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate",............so they can produce the products that their customers want without the threat of the state telling them that they can't. That is a "smoke screen free" economic decision if ya' ask me. I'm trying to understand why you see a smoke screen here.

And to your case in point about the other arms makers, can you back it up with actual specifics? How are Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms in MA in the same circumstances as Beretta in MD? I guess the details matter to me if you want me to think they are all in such similar circumstances that logic would mandate they should all make similar decisions on whether to stay or go.

raisindot

Bob Luken:
raisindot:
Personally, I think the gun control law excuse is a smoke screen for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate, which I would imagine Tennessee is by comparison to MD.

Case in point? Here in Massachusetts we have among the strongest gun control laws in the country, and have had many of the same provisions that MD is proposing for a lot longer. But MA is still headquarters to several major gun manufacturers, including Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms, none of which have threatened to quit the state for more economically advantageous or less restrictive climates.

I enjoy the debate with you so please consider these questions.

I don't see any smoke screen. And why exactly do you think they would want to hide an economic decision? I was under the impression that the restrictions, and or threat of restrictive laws was obviously an economic motivation "for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate",............so they can produce the products that their customers want without the threat of the state telling them that they can't. That is a "smoke screen free" economic decision if ya' ask me. I'm trying to understand why you see a smoke screen here.

And to your case in point about the other arms makers, can you back it up with actual specifics? How are Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms in MA in the same circumstances as Beretta in MD? I guess the details matter to me if you want me to think they are all in such similar circumstances that logic would mandate they should all make similar decisions on whether to stay or go.

After looking at the piece below, it might be a combination of regulatory and economic factors.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frankminiter/2014/07/23/gun-control-drives-beretta-out-of-maryland/

The original version of the new MD law prohibited companies from manufacturing certain kinds of weapons, but some of these were taken out of the final legislation. Beretta is worried that the provisions might be reimposed at a later date. Thus they're using the potential "threat" as a reason to get out of MD. However, the big-business conspiracist in me almost leads to me believe that the fact that they had a plant in Tennessee already made the decision easier--the costs of relocation and the benefits of moving to what I would presume to be a more favorable labor, tax and gun law environment probably all contributed to the decision. What I mean is that Beretta might have been thinking of moving to TN anyway for economic reasons, and the gun laws gave them a political reason to blame the state's gun laws for their decision to uproot. Note: This is a theory only. But companies that are moving know that relocation and job losses can create very bad PR. Blaming the gun control laws is a good cover that would give them more sympathy (particularly from gun owners) than saying that a high taxes, higher labor costs or cost of living drove them out. (Note to all TN folks here: This is not meant to be an swipe at TN's favorable business environment; it's a compliment. You folks are very good at bringing in manufacturing and other jobs to your state from other states and from international companies. I've owned several TN-built Toyotas, and they were just as reliable as those made in Japan).

Looking again at the MA laws, the main difference is while MA prohibits possession of assault weapons and larger-capacity magazines, it doesn't prohibit the manufacture of these weapons or parts. So, presumably, MA companies make produce these weapons--they just can't sell them in state. My guess is that if MA did prohibit their manufacture, some of these companies might seriously consider leaving the state (although I think it would be more likely for them to simply manufacture these kinds of weapons in facilities in a different state).

jd50ae

Thanatos0320:
That's good news for TN
jd50ae:
Maybe we will get some cigar bars and brew bars or even a cigar brew bar. Come on down.
I think there is a cigar bar in Memphis called "Daq Cigar & Sushi Bar." I don't know if it's closed or not but I do remember hearing an advertisement for it on the radio about 1-2 years ago

"...and sushi bar...". Could it get any better....I love you man.

jd50ae

raisindot:
Personally, I think the gun control law excuse is a smoke screen for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate, which I would imagine Tennessee is by comparison to MD.

Case in point? Here in Massachusetts we have among the strongest gun control laws in the country, and have had many of the same provisions that MD is proposing for a lot longer. But MA is still headquarters to several major gun manufacturers, including Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms, none of which have threatened to quit the state for more economically advantageous or less restrictive climates.

Bull...it is not and never was a smoke screen.

Beretta warned the idiot MD legislatures years ago, that new restrictive gun laws in that state would force them to take their jobs and taxes elsewhere, because of stupidity and not for economic reasons. It was a warning then, and it is fact now. And there are a lot of firearms related businesses moving because of gun laws enacted in the states they operated in.

TN made them welcome, and they made a wise choice because of rural open land and a ready and willing work force, that will work hard for a decent income and benefits.

I feel sorry for the MD employees who will lose their jobs, I knew a lot of them, but you can bet a whole bunch will follow the job and move to TN.

I have 2 Beretta's, a tricked out 9mm (tricked by John Rice, chief metallurgist at Aberdeen before he passed) and a 380, parts hand picked by one of the Beretta brothers. I was going to sell one. I think I will keep both out of respect for a company that does what they say they will do.

raisindot

jd50ae:
raisindot:
Personally, I think the gun control law excuse is a smoke screen for Beretta to move to a more economically attractive climate, which I would imagine Tennessee is by comparison to MD.

Case in point? Here in Massachusetts we have among the strongest gun control laws in the country, and have had many of the same provisions that MD is proposing for a lot longer. But MA is still headquarters to several major gun manufacturers, including Smith and Wesson, Kahr and Savage Arms, none of which have threatened to quit the state for more economically advantageous or less restrictive climates.

Bull...it is not and never was a smoke screen.

Beretta warned the idiot MD legislatures years ago, that new restrictive gun laws in that state would force them to take their jobs and taxes elsewhere, because of stupidity and not for economic reasons. It was a warning then, and it is fact now. And there are a lot of firearms related businesses moving because of gun laws enacted in the states they operated in.

TN made them welcome, and they made a wise choice because of rural open land and a ready and willing work force, that will work hard for a decent income and benefits.

I feel sorry for the MD employees who will lose their jobs, I knew a lot of them, but you can bet a whole bunch will follow the job and move to TN.

I have 2 Beretta's, a tricked out 9mm (tricked by John Rice, chief metallurgist at Aberdeen before he passed) and a 380, parts hand picked by one of the Beretta brothers. I was going to sell one. I think I will keep both out of respect for a company that does what they say they will do.

See my "update" response to Bob's question. I'm essentially agreeing that MD's situation is different than MA's and would probably create a more compelling reason to leave.

I do wonder, however, that of the states where gun manufacturers are leaving, are they in response to changes affecting ownership alone, or ownership plus manufacturing? I just find it hard to believe that a company would relocate solely if a state no longer permits ownership of certain weapon types than the company manufactures but still allows the company to manufacture the weapons to sell elsewhere (like tough gun control states like MA and CT do)

I do wonder, however, whether Beretta offered to give the TN jobs to some or all MD employees who are willing to relocate. I'd be more likely to believe that the gun control laws were the sole reason (rather than one that also includes economic/tax reasons) if Beretta offered to pay for some part of relocation and paid them the same wages in TN. I don't know if they are or not.

Thanatos0320

Martel:
Thanatos0320:
That's good news for TN
jd50ae:
Maybe we will get some cigar bars and brew bars or even a cigar brew bar. Come on down.
I think there is a cigar bar in Memphis called "Daq Cigar & Sushi Bar." I don't know if it's closed or not but I do remember hearing an advertisement for it on the radio about 1-2 years ago
Although I don't think of pairing my cigar with sushi of all foods.

The Namakubi would loved to be paired with sushi because it's Japanese. Lame joke.

The3Stogies

They must be re-locating for the better business climate in TN. By that I mean regulations and taxes that affect their bottom line. Very costly for a company to just up and move, there must be some good incentives or tax breaks. Are they expanding or downsizing their operations when they move?

jd50ae

The3Stogies:
They must be re-locating for the better business climate in TN. By that I mean regulations and taxes that affect their bottom line. Very costly for a company to just up and move, there must be some good incentives or tax breaks. Are they expanding or downsizing their operations when they move?

All states offer incentives to business. Even NY City, the great XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX "experiment" gone completely haywire is giving away the keys to the city to get business BACK. The point of Beretta going to TN is not why they went there, but why they left MD.

raisindot

jd50ae:
The3Stogies:
They must be re-locating for the better business climate in TN. By that I mean regulations and taxes that affect their bottom line. Very costly for a company to just up and move, there must be some good incentives or tax breaks. Are they expanding or downsizing their operations when they move?

All states offer incentives to business. Even NY City, the great XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX "experiment" gone completely haywire is giving away the keys to the city to get business BACK. The point of Beretta going to TN is not why they went there, but why they left MD.

Both factors are important to consider. And in Beretta's case it's most likely a combination of both. If every other state had higher taxes, higher labor costs, and higher costs of doing business than MD, then my guess is that instead of leaving MD Beretta would have instead 1) heavily lobbied the MD legislature to get rid of the manufacturing-related gun controls or 2) manufactured the outlawed weapons or parts somewhere else. Businesses may take political stands, but their actions nearly always reflect the bottom line.

jd50ae

raisindot:
jd50ae:
The3Stogies:
They must be re-locating for the better business climate in TN. By that I mean regulations and taxes that affect their bottom line. Very costly for a company to just up and move, there must be some good incentives or tax breaks. Are they expanding or downsizing their operations when they move?

All states offer incentives to business. Even NY City, the great XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX "experiment" gone completely haywire is giving away the keys to the city to get business BACK. The point of Beretta going to TN is not why they went there, but why they left MD.

Both factors are important to consider. And in Beretta's case it's most likely a combination of both. If every other state had higher taxes, higher labor costs, and higher costs of doing business than MD, then my guess is that instead of leaving MD Beretta would have instead 1) heavily lobbied the MD legislature to get rid of the manufacturing-related gun controls or 2) manufactured the outlawed weapons or parts somewhere else. Businesses may take political stands, but their actions nearly always reflect the bottom line.

Would you understand the reason for the post if I had said "Beretta leaves Aberdeen, MD because of MD's gun laws", and never mentioned TN?

Bob Luken

raisindot:
jd50ae:
The3Stogies:
They must be re-locating for the better business climate in TN. By that I mean regulations and taxes that affect their bottom line. Very costly for a company to just up and move, there must be some good incentives or tax breaks. Are they expanding or downsizing their operations when they move?

All states offer incentives to business. Even NY City, the great XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX "experiment" gone completely haywire is giving away the keys to the city to get business BACK. The point of Beretta going to TN is not why they went there, but why they left MD.

Both factors are important to consider. And in Beretta's case it's most likely a combination of both. If every other state had higher taxes, higher labor costs, and higher costs of doing business than MD, then my guess is that instead of leaving MD Beretta would have instead 1) heavily lobbied the MD legislature to get rid of the manufacturing-related gun controls or 2) manufactured the outlawed weapons or parts somewhere else. Businesses may take political stands, but their actions nearly always reflect the bottom line.

Are you implying that it's some sort of "fake outrage" for Beretta to talk about the politics? We all know there had to be many many economic considerations in the decision to move to TN but the political element of this case has an obvious economic effect. And because political stuff happens to get the most media attention, that's why it's in the news. We wouldn't be talkin' about it unless there was a political element.

raisindot

jd50ae:
Would you understand the reason for the post if I had said "Beretta leaves Aberdeen, MD because of MD's gun laws", and never mentioned TN?

Well, your original post consisted of one line and a link to a FOX news article. That leaves a lot to interpretation. Even if you hadn't mentioned TN, I still would have questioned Beretta's motivations. Don't get me wrong--as I've said many times in this topic, MD is shooting its own foot by passing laws that make Beretta feel that its ability to manufacture certain kinds of weapons is being threatened. At the same time, however, I find it hard to believe that a principled stand on gun control alone is the only reason why Beretta is moving. Especially when moving to an existing facility in TN will be economically advantageous and relatively cheaper than if they didn't.

Mind you, I'd be pissed as hell if MA passed laws outlawing the manufacture of semi-automatic weapons or clips and Smith & Wesson used this as an excuse to move somewhere with a lower tax base and more advantageous economic climate.

Whatever the reason, MD's loss is TN's gain, and all the power to you folks.

jd50ae

raisindot:
jd50ae:
Would you understand the reason for the post if I had said "Beretta leaves Aberdeen, MD because of MD's gun laws", and never mentioned TN?

Well, your original post consisted of one line and a link to a FOX news article. That leaves a lot to interpretation. Even if you hadn't mentioned TN, I still would have questioned Beretta's motivations. Don't get me wrong--as I've said many times in this topic, MD is shooting its own foot by passing laws that make Beretta feel that its ability to manufacture certain kinds of weapons is being threatened. At the same time, however, I find it hard to believe that a principled stand on gun control alone is the only reason why Beretta is moving. Especially when moving to an existing facility in TN will be economically advantageous and relatively cheaper than if they didn't.

Mind you, I'd be pissed as hell if MA passed laws outlawing the manufacture of semi-automatic weapons or clips and Smith & Wesson used this as an excuse to move somewhere with a lower tax base and more advantageous economic climate.

Whatever the reason, MD's loss is TN's gain, and all the power to you folks.

What ever....

The3Stogies

Money talks, follow the money. People talk too but follow the money.