Vacuum seal machines for freezing? FoodSaver / Seal-A-Meal

It may be bad form to refer to other forums but I have read some info on another forum where a guy uses a vacuum seal machine to seal boxed cigars inside freezer bags before freezing them. He seemed to be very knowledgeable but I have heard some people mention that the oils could be affected. Is this harmful for the cigars to create a vacuum (low pressure?) within the box?

[edited by: Bob Luken at 9:25 AM (GMT -5) on Sun, May 05 2013]
I appreciate all the help. Here are some points that I should have made clear on my original post. I am freezing cigars to combat a beetle outbreak. Not for storage or aging.

It makes sense to me to remove as much air as possible from the bag that you will be freezing them in. I have read online that some guys put their food saver vacuum sealers to work to remove as much air as possible. I'm not expecting the pressures involved to pop or crush beetle eggs. I'm just wanting to remove air from the bag before freezing.

My question is whether vacuum sealing whole boxes of cigars inside the vacuum sealed bags is harmful in any way. My concerns would be the effects of the negative, or very low air pressure on the cigar.

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AVJim

I am not the most knowledgable guy on this forum but it would seem to me that sucking out the air will also suck all the humidity out too? That can't be good for them could it?

Bob Luken

AVJim:
I am not the most knowledgable guy on this forum but it would seem to me that sucking out the air will also suck all the humidity out too? That can't be good for them could it?

I was guessing that the humidity would be OK. (But you got me thinking about the humidity now too.) I was concerned more about the effects of the pressure. I have a vacuum sealer and I went ahead and sealed some boxes. I also sealed a loose bundle by layering them in rows of twos and the vacuum went too far and started to compress the wrappers a little bit, so I cut the corner of the bag and let a little bit of air back in and re-sealed the corner. I will only be keeping them sealed for the duration of the freeze. But I was having some second thoughts about the possible effects of the negative/low pressure.

Roberto99

Bob Luken:
AVJim:
I am not the most knowledgable guy on this forum but it would seem to me that sucking out the air will also suck all the humidity out too? That can't be good for them could it?
I was guessing that the humidity would be OK. (But you got me thinking about the humidity now too.) I was concerned more about the effects of the pressure. I have a vacuum sealer and I went ahead and sealed some boxes. I also sealed a loose bundle by layering them in rows of twos and the vacuum went too far and started to compress the wrappers a little bit, so I cut the corner of the bag and let a little bit of air back in and re-sealed the corner. I will only be keeping them sealed for the duration of the freeze. But I was having some second thoughts about the possible effects of the negative/low pressure.

There are vendors who vacuum seal their cigars before shipping.

xmacro

First thought - why? It's stupid to freeze your cigars; they aren't a food item - they improve with age if you keep them at a proper RH and temp. If you can afford a vaccuum sealer, you can probably spring for a large beer cooler and some boveda packs and age them properly. I'd wager that freezing cigars for any period of time harms the oils

The only reason I've ever heard to freeze your cigars is if they're sitting out in the heat for a long time (eg - in a USPS truck, then on your porch for a few days, or your house temp spiked for a few days), and you're concerned about beetles, in which case, you'd freeze the cigars for only a day or so, then refrigerate for a day to bring them back up to temp slowly, and then back in the humi.

Gray4lines

Is agree that only 1-2 day freezing is needed for beetles. And if its only 1-2 days, why not use a ziplock??? I see no point in vacuum sealing or feeezing long term and imagine only harm can be done. There is no point in freezing cigars except for beetle prevention.

Bob Luken

xmacro:
First thought - why? It's stupid to freeze your cigars; they aren't a food item - they improve with age if you keep them at a proper RH and temp. If you can afford a vaccuum sealer, you can probably spring for a large beer cooler and some boveda packs and age them properly. I'd wager that freezing cigars for any period of time harms the oils

The only reason I've ever heard to freeze your cigars is if they're sitting out in the heat for a long time (eg - in a USPS truck, then on your porch for a few days, or your house temp spiked for a few days), and you're concerned about beetles, in which case, you'd freeze the cigars for only a day or so, then refrigerate for a day to bring them back up to temp slowly, and then back in the humi.

It's not long term freezing or for storage. They were delivered by ups. And I am concerned about beetles. Although the ones that I had the problems with were from a B&M.

xmacro

If you're concerned about beetles, do like Gray4lines suggested - stick them in a zip lock baggie, throw in the freezer for about 24 hrs, give or take a few (really, no hard rule about this; a day is the most commonly suggested time period). Then move them to the refrigerator for 24 hrs, to avoid any temperature shock that can crack the wrappers. After that, back into the humi they go.

jlmarta

Xmacro knows whereof he speaks. His advice is good.

Bob Luken

Gray4lines:
Is agree that only 1-2 day freezing is needed for beetles. And if its only 1-2 days, why not use a ziplock??? I see no point in vacuum sealing or feeezing long term and imagine only harm can be done. There is no point in freezing cigars except for beetle prevention.

Oh it's for beetles alright.

But I thought that was obvious. And it's not for long term storage. Guess I didn't explain everything clearly. I just wanted to know what you guys thought about using a vacuum sealer to bag them up for the freezing process.

Bob Luken

xmacro:
If you're concerned about beetles, do like Gray4lines suggested - stick them in a zip lock baggie, throw in the freezer for about 24 hrs, give or take a few (really, no hard rule about this; a day is the most commonly suggested time period). Then move them to the refrigerator for 24 hrs, to avoid any temperature shock that can crack the wrappers. After that, back into the humi they go.

Thanks for the help. I appreciate all the help I can get. This beetle situation sucks. But with all you guys helping me, I've learned a lot. Thanks.

Rhamlin

I've read that putting cigars is actually the best way to prevent beetles. The pressure crushes the eggs where freezing doesn't always kill them off. But whether thats true or mot who knows.But I've got one of those sealers myself but I haven't tried it yet.

kuzi16

Bob Luken:
I just wanted to know what you guys thought about using a vacuum sealer to bag them up for the freezing process.

there is nothing wrong with it, just kinda pointess. it isnt saving anything from anything.

kuzi16

Rhamlin:
I've read that putting cigars is actually the best way to prevent beetles. The pressure crushes the eggs where freezing doesn't always kill them off. But whether thats true or mot who knows.But I've got one of those sealers myself but I haven't tried it yet.

never heard that. the eggs are getting protection from the cigar. if you add enough negative pressure to kill the eggs you start crushing tobacco as well. those eggs are stronger than they look.

Bob Luken

I've read some stuff like that too about popping or crushing the eggs in a vacuum environment, but I don't expect my home vacuum sealer to create those extreme egg crushing pressures. Maybe it would, I don't know. I just assumed it was best to remove air before freezing. You always read guys explaining the freezing process explain to "remove as much air from the ziplock bag as possible" before you freeze your cigars. Then I saw where some guys were using the vacuum sealers to remove air. I've got a few boxes in the freezer now under vacuum seal. I'll let you know how it goes.

Bob Luken

kuzi16:
Bob Luken:
I just wanted to know what you guys thought about using a vacuum sealer to bag them up for the freezing process.
there is nothing wrong with it, just kinda pointess. it isnt saving anything from anything.

The point is to remove excess air from the bag before freezing. If it's an unnecessary step then I'll forget it. When using a regular ziplock bag for freezing cigars, is it a good idea to remove any excess air before I zip it shut? I don't want to be wasting time vacuum sealing or even burping the ziplock bags if removing excess air is not important.

Thanks

kuzi16

Its good to remove extra air. But at some point is isn't a huge deal. The amountof difference in air removal isn't enough to change anything.

Roberto99

kuzi16:
Rhamlin:
I've read that putting cigars is actually the best way to prevent beetles. The pressure crushes the eggs where freezing doesn't always kill them off. But whether thats true or mot who knows.But I've got one of those sealers myself but I haven't tried it yet.
never heard that. the eggs are getting protection from the cigar. if you add enough negative pressure to kill the eggs you start crushing tobacco as well. those eggs are stronger than they look.

I can tell you that from my experience the beetle infestation I had was from a cigar that was vacuum sealed by the vendor and then mailed to me. I don't know if the beetles were already alive or had hatched from eggs after I received them. But I think the latter because there was no hole in the cigar when I received it, only when I smoked it some time later.

Rhamlin

kuzi16:
Rhamlin:
I've read that putting cigars is actually the best way to prevent beetles. The pressure crushes the eggs where freezing doesn't always kill them off. But whether thats true or mot who knows.But I've got one of those sealers myself but I haven't tried it yet.
never heard that. the eggs are getting protection from the cigar. if you add enough negative pressure to kill the eggs you start crushing tobacco as well. those eggs are stronger than they look.

Thats why I've always been scared to try it.

Lee.mcglynn

Personally I'd just double bag in ziplock freezer bags...you can save the money and put it towards a wineador which will help prevent beetles and take mold worries away. That's just my opinion

blurr

Just use the redneck vacuum seal method. Put cigars in Ziploc, stick a straw in and suck the air out with your mouth while quickly closing the seal. I do this with 2 more Ziploc bags over the first, each with the air sucked out redneck style. With your mouth you don't create enough pressure to crush cigars, you just want air out so condensation doesn't occur when they go into the freezer. I do 2 days in the freezer, 12 hours in the fridge, then out for a few hours before into my humi. Just cigars that have maybe gotten hot in shipping or I'm concerned in general (Cubans from overseas etc)

Bob Luken

Ziploc® Brand Vacuum Freezer System

http://www.ziploc.com/Products/Pages/VacuumFreezerSystem.aspx

Since posting my question I've used these a few times now. Works great for freezing cigars. The bags are like regular ziplocs but they have a built in exhaust port for removing air. The "Starter kit" has a little hand pump to remove air without creating too much of a vacuum. And the bags are reusable.