in America.........

are your prisoners allowed to vote??

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Bah. I thought this was going to be a Yakov Smirnoff joke.

As far as the answer, it depends on the state I think, but usually if you're convicted of a felony you lose that right.

sightunseen

Russ55:
Bah. I thought this was going to be a Yakov Smirnoff joke.

As far as the answer, it depends on the state I think, but usually if you're convicted of a felony you lose that right.

Felons cannot vote in Washington State.

lilwing88

In IL, convicted felons cannot vote (for now..... geniuses in Springfield wanna change that). And as far as I know, they don't have polling places in the jails. But that wouldn't surprise me if they did.

Diamondog

I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....

xmacro

Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....

Not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure that felons can't vote (convicted of a crime that carries a potential (not actual) jail sentence over 1 yr), while misdemeanors (potential, not actual, jail time is 1 yr or less) can still vote.

In our political system, progressives (hard-left types, either socialist or very close to socialists) believe the law should be changed to allow voting (of course, they believe this will benefit politicians favorable to their views, else they wouldn't be pushing it). Most Liberals, Conservatives and the majority of independants are against such a change in the law, so it's really not gonna be changed anytime soon

It's never been an election issue since the majority of Americans are set against allowing felons to vote, and any politician who supports it would be committing career suicide

sightunseen

xmacro:
Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....
Not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure that felons can't vote (convicted of a crime that carries a potential (not actual) jail sentence over 1 yr), while misdemeanors (potential, not actual, jail time is 1 yr or less) can still vote.

In our political system, progressives (hard-left types, either socialist or very close to socialists) believe the law should be changed to allow voting (of course, they believe this will benefit politicians favorable to their views, else they wouldn't be pushing it). Conservatives and the majority of independants are against such a change in the law, so it's really not gonna be changed anytime soon

It's never been an election issue since the majority of Americans are set against allowing felons to vote, and any politician who supports it would be committing career suicide

Seems like the logic is "you will not have rights if you violate other people's rights."

xmacro

sightunseen:
xmacro:
Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....
Not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure that felons can't vote (convicted of a crime that carries a potential (not actual) jail sentence over 1 yr), while misdemeanors (potential, not actual, jail time is 1 yr or less) can still vote.

In our political system, progressives (hard-left types, either socialist or very close to socialists) believe the law should be changed to allow voting (of course, they believe this will benefit politicians favorable to their views, else they wouldn't be pushing it). Conservatives and the majority of independants are against such a change in the law, so it's really not gonna be changed anytime soon

It's never been an election issue since the majority of Americans are set against allowing felons to vote, and any politician who supports it would be committing career suicide

Seems like the logic is "you will not have rights if you violate other people's rights."

Bingo.

fla-gypsy

Florida does not and it should always be that way.

kuzi16

Russ55:
Bah. I thought this was going to be a Yakov Smirnoff joke.

as in...

ellinas

felons can't vote

One2gofst

Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....

I'd love to know WHY you find this amusing rather than just leaving a hit and run comment.

Diamondog

One2gofst:
Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....
I'd love to know WHY you find this amusing rather than just leaving a hit and run comment.

Because I think its pretty opressive to take away someones right to vote....here's a statement from one of our politicians: "The courts don't sentence by taking away citizenship, and citizens have a right to vote in this country," said New Democrat Leader Jack Layton...I am not sure if all felons cannot vote in the U.S, if thats the case I don't think it's right but I do agree with setting certain standards when it comes to criminals in the right to vote, what those standards are is a whole other discussion...

ellinas

Diamondog:
One2gofst:
Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....
I'd love to know WHY you find this amusing rather than just leaving a hit and run comment.
Because I think its pretty opressive to take away someones right to vote....here's a statement from one of our politicians: "The courts don't sentence by taking away citizenship, and citizens have a right to vote in this country," said New Democrat Leader Jack Layton...I am not sure if all felons cannot vote in the U.S, if thats the case I don't think it's right but I do agree with setting certain standards when it comes to criminals in the right to vote, what those standards are is a whole other discussion...

^ i got into a huge debate about that in my criminal justice class

beardedcanadian

sol1821:
are your prisoners allowed to vote??

Yes...Politicians are allowed to vote in the US.

kuzi16

ellinas:
Diamondog:
One2gofst:
Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....
I'd love to know WHY you find this amusing rather than just leaving a hit and run comment.
Because I think its pretty opressive to take away someones right to vote....here's a statement from one of our politicians: "The courts don't sentence by taking away citizenship, and citizens have a right to vote in this country," said New Democrat Leader Jack Layton...I am not sure if all felons cannot vote in the U.S, if thats the case I don't think it's right but I do agree with setting certain standards when it comes to criminals in the right to vote, what those standards are is a whole other discussion...
^ i got into a huge debate about that in my criminal justice class

i think the theory here is that these people have violated the rights of others in some way or another. to put a price on their actions, they must take away their rights. in this care it is their freedom to do as they please and their right to vote.
the concept is: if prison was fun and you were treated very well in it, then there is no deterrent to committing crimes by sending you there.

now, this is about as much though as i have put into this discussion or concept in my entire life so beyond that...

i got nothin.

One2gofst

Prison generally, is a pretty poor place to reform anyone. It also is not real big on "punishment" when it really boils down to it. I believe that prison was designed to keep society at large safe.

That said, when you allow those who have disregarded the laws set in place by the citizens and their appointed representatives to have equal say in said laws it creates a system where the lunatics can essentially run the asylum. I don't find any of this funny. I would much rather felons be allowed to own firearms than to vote. I believe there is Constitutional basis for my stance as well, as it has been determined that the 2nd amendment acknowledges an individual right to bear arms. However, while the 15th and 19th assure that certain groups are not discriminated against in voting, there is no constitutional right to vote guaranteed. A right to vote is a right to govern essentially. Why allow those who have already rejected the authority of law to make law over law-abiding citizens.

bearb

Not sure I want to wade into this discussion, but I will just pose a few questions to think about/respond to if you wish. So many of these questions are debates unto themselves, but here goes.

1) Are people naturally good? or naturally evil? (hobbes vs rouseous) 2a) What do you call the place where people break the law go? Jails, Prisons, Reformatory, Penitentiary? 2b) does what you call it reflect your view of what people are (naturally good or evil?) 2c) Are these institutions meant to a) punish people for their actions? b) reform them into being citizens who believe/act in a certain way deemed more acceptable to the masses? 2d) do good people screw up and make mistakes? can a generally 'bad' person do good? 3a) If people are naturally evil, then are large governments, police, military necessary to ensure the masses views are carried out? 3b) If people are naturally good, then when they mess up does society try then to help them to reform, see the 'more acceptable' way to act? 4) What/how do you deal with those that don't conform to the rules of the masses? Are people allowed to be different? As well, are there some people that are clearly off the scale of evil? If so how should society deal with them? (Life in prision, death penalty, send to a penal colony (sorry to the botl's from 'down under' 4b) Does/should the government/family or even the individual have the right to decide who lives and who dies? (Death Penalty/Assisted suicide-Euthanasa/suicide) 5) -note to self: stop typing....ok

Vulchor

One2gofst:
Prison generally, is a pretty poor place to reform anyone. It also is not real big on "punishment" when it really boils down to it. I believe that prison was designed to keep society at large safe.

That said, when you allow those who have disregarded the laws set in place by the citizens and their appointed representatives to have equal say in said laws it creates a system where the lunatics can essentially run the asylum. I don't find any of this funny. I would much rather felons be allowed to own firearms than to vote. I believe there is Constitutional basis for my stance as well, as it has been determined that the 2nd amendment acknowledges an individual right to bear arms. However, while the 15th and 19th assure that certain groups are not discriminated against in voting, there is no constitutional right to vote guaranteed. A right to vote is a right to govern essentially. Why allow those who have already rejected the authority of law to make law over law-abiding citizens.

While I dont disagree with everything...I do two points

1. If you have a violent convicted felon in your neighborhood----letting him own a gun is a lot more dangerous than going to a ballot box that there is a 50/50 chance any citizen wont go to anyway

2. The authority of law is violated daily by politicians, businesses, and citizens everywhere. The blanket "felony" conviction is a little bothersome to me. This puts the 18 year old who steals a really expensive car in the same category with the child rapist. Just saying.

One2gofst

And I would argue that if you believe a person with a tool is that dangerous, he ought not be out of jail period because, as I previously stated, prisons are designed for the safety of society, not for reformation or punishment.

We, as a collective society, have determined what constitutes an adult and what constitutes a felony. Adults make decisions to break the law and become felons. We can argue about what is worse, but it doesn't change this fact. They made a decision to risk giving up their liberties for their actions. The repercussions of commiting a felony shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Ignorance of the law is not an affirmative defense. The "everyone is doing it" argument won't get someone out of a speeding ticket and it won't change my opinion on this topic.

Let me also edit to add, I don't necessarily have an issue with someone violating a law they feel is unjust or unconstitutional. However, it's big boy rules and if you get convicted you better be willing to accept the penalty. If folks want to live under rule of law, they can't pick and choose what laws are right and which ones are wrong. If everyone did this, then there would effectively be no laws.

Diamondog

All kinds of people make mistakes in life and go on to become valuable productive members of society that deserve the right to be a part of choosing the goverment that leads them period.....

One2gofst

Diamondog:
All kinds of people make mistakes in life and go on to become valuable productive members of society that deserve the right to be a part of choosing the goverment the leads them period.....

That is your opinion based on anecdotal evidence.

Diamondog:
I have always found this quite amusing that America doesn't let their criminals vote....

Funny thing is, they are in Office! (Cue the drum)!

xmacro

Diamondog:
All kinds of people make mistakes in life and go on to become valuable productive members of society that deserve the right to be a part of choosing the goverment that leads them period.....

I would argue that certain crimes, like shoplifting may be an error in judgment - murder, rape, grand larceny, theft, etc, are not mistakes, but choices that carry consequences. Such crimes weren't forced onto the felon, they made a conscious decision to carry out that crime, and it would be the height of naitivity/foolishness to not follow through with the consequences.

If someone thinks that committing a felony and having their voting rights taken away is too much, they can 1) not commit the crime, or 2) move to another country.

Diamondog

xmacro:
Diamondog:
All kinds of people make mistakes in life and go on to become valuable productive members of society that deserve the right to be a part of choosing the goverment that leads them period.....
I would argue that certain crimes, like shoplifting may be an error in judgment - murder, rape, grand larceny, theft, etc, are not mistakes, but choices that carry consequences. Such crimes weren't forced onto the felon, they made a conscious decision to carry out that crime, and it would be the height of naitivity/foolishness to not follow through with the consequences.

If someone thinks that committing a felony and having their voting rights taken away is too much, they can 1) not commit the crime, or 2) move to another country.

Once convicted of a felony do you lose the right to vote forlife unless pardoned?

Russ55

Diamondog:
xmacro:
Diamondog:
All kinds of people make mistakes in life and go on to become valuable productive members of society that deserve the right to be a part of choosing the goverment that leads them period.....
I would argue that certain crimes, like shoplifting may be an error in judgment - murder, rape, grand larceny, theft, etc, are not mistakes, but choices that carry consequences. Such crimes weren't forced onto the felon, they made a conscious decision to carry out that crime, and it would be the height of naitivity/foolishness to not follow through with the consequences.

If someone thinks that committing a felony and having their voting rights taken away is too much, they can 1) not commit the crime, or 2) move to another country.
Once convicted of a felony do you lose the right to vote forlife unless pardoned?

As I understand it, depending on the crime, the state, and the amount of time that has passed you can sometimes get the right back. It's not always an absolute.

This is from Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

Prisoner voting rights is a state issue, so the laws are different from state to state. Some states allow only individuals on probation and ex-felons to vote. Others allow individuals on parole, probation and ex-felons to vote. As of July 2007, fourteen states, eleven of them in the South, ban anyone with a felony conviction from voting for life, even after the person has served the sentence, while only two states, Maine and Vermont, allow incarcerated individuals to vote.

According to the Sentencing Project, 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of a felony conviction ("felony disenfranchisement"). The number of people disenfranchised amounts to approximately 2.42% of the otherwise-eligible voting population. This is in sharp contrast to European nations, like Norway, which allow ex-felons to vote after serving sentences and in some cases allow prisoners to vote. Prisoners have been allowed to vote in Canada since 2002.

The United States has a higher proportion of its population in prison than any other Western nation, and more than Russia or China. The dramatic rise in the rate of incarceration in the United States, a 500% increase from the 1970s to the 1990s due to criminalization of certain behaviors, strict sentencing guidelines and changes in philosophy, has vastly increased the number of people disfranchised because of the felon provisions. Given the prison populations, the effects have been most disadvantageous for minority and poor communities

Vulchor

OneGo----I would say your argument or point is flawed because the true meaning behind prisons is not totally known or certain...and it is a topic I wish would be explored seriously by those in power. Depending on who you ask (even in the penal system itself) prison is used for reform or punishment, or even both. If it were totally one way or the other, our system would operate very differently than it does now.

sol1821

thanks for the replies guys, sorry its taken me so long to get back to this and post a reply.
the reason i asked was because the European lot which the uk is a part of had past a law allowing prisoners to vote, which we are supposed to be a part of, however our gov had a vote and decided to keep as it is with not allowing them to vote.
dunno whats going to happen now, seems a bit pointless being part of this European thing if we can just ignore it lol.
not that there's any point of being in it anyway lol but thats a different thread :P

rossdavey2

Yeah lets join with the EU keep our own money and if they do 1 thing lets do the other. Classic British (read as English).

I remember people freaking out in my home town over joining the EU thinking we would change to the euro and everyone one know the euro isn't real money!!!
Any way I just left the country when I could and am happier for it. I mean it hardly seems like a big deal when you look at other things going on. I mean Feck it. Its all going down the shitter any way.

rgalyon0911

kuzi16:
Russ55:
Bah. I thought this was going to be a Yakov Smirnoff joke.
as in...

Nice