got this in an email

On my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read "Vote Obama, I need the money." I laughed. Once in the restaurant my server had on a "Obama 08" tie, again I laughed as he had given away his political preference -- just imagine the coincidence. When the bill came I decided not to tip the server and explained to him that I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I told him that I was going to redistribute his tip to someone who I deemed more in need--the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed from my sight. I went outside, gave the homeless guy $5 and told him to thank the server inside as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful. At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he did not earn, but the waiter was pretty angry that I gave away the money he did earn even though the actual recipient deserved money more. I guess redistribution of wealth is an easier thing to swallow in concept than in practical application.

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Comments

Lasabar

That was probably the first political thing I've read that I actually paid attention to and enjoyed... THANK YOU

kuzi16

nice

Bad Andy

thought you'd like that...here's a new one from Boortz's page.

OFFICIAL NOTICE: This Internet page contains thoughts and ideas that are not consistent with or in keeping with the policies and ideas expressed by Barack Obama and/or the Democrat party. Accordingly, you are hereby notified that that the thoughts, ideas and facts presented on this web page constitute hate speech and you are warned that, as such, they may cause discomfort or offense to Democrats, liberals, those educated by the government, non-achievers, those suffering from wealth-envy and followers of The Chosen One. Govern yourself accordingly.

urbino

Do you guys really think liberals, Democrats, and Obama supporters are that shallow/sensitive/stupid?

PuroFreak

urbino:
Do you guys really think liberals, Democrats, and Obama supporters are that shallow/sensitive/stupid?

Sadly, yes, I honestly do. But that aside, this was a FUNNY post!

urbino

Then it's hard for me to see any point in my continuing to try to discuss these subjects with you (or even in your presence), Puro. You've got an established set of prejudices against me, everyone like me, and anything I might say. Why would I -- or any reasonable, self-respecting person who disagrees with you -- bother trying to talk to you?

I know people on both sides of the aisle who can have an intelligent, engaged discussion of public policy, and I know people on both sides who can't. I generally avoid the latter because talking to them just wastes my time and raises my blood pressure; there's nothing I can say that they're going to hear, since they're already convinced -- without knowing me or having ever heard me say a word -- that I'm nothing but an ignorant, idiotic, self-serving, special-pleading, America-hating troll.

That's the attitude Boortz's disclaimer expresses. To whatever degree you share it, I don't think you'll ever meet a liberal who won't just reinforce your prejudices, because the only ones who'll bother engaging with you are the liberal Boortz-equivalents -- who do it for the fun of making a noise and getting a rise out of people, not in the interest of having an intelligent conversation.

PuroFreak

I wasn't making a personal attack against you, you seem to be a very nice guy and I have nothing against you personally. You asked a question, I answered and when I did I didn't mean every single liberal, democrat, or Obama supporter but yes, the majority I believe are. I have no problem engaging in a normal political discussion and I have never tried to attack you personally or even spoken an ill word about you. I have never replied to anything you have said in anger and don't understand why you just did. I just reply and try to express my point just like you do to my posts. I'm not sure why you took this as something personal against you... I thought thats what happens here is that people debate and spew forth our line of crap no matter which side we stand for...

urbino

Boortz didn't specify "a majority of..." in his rant, neither did you in your endorsement of it, neither did I in my question, nor did you in your answer to my question. I was taking the subject all along to be all liberals, Democrats, and Obama-supporters, since nobody had said they meant a subset. Since I fit in one or more of those categories, yes, I did take what you said personally, because it would've applied to me personally.

If you intended to refer only to "the majority of...", then we had a miscommunication, is all. No harm, no foul.

Going forward from that point, then, I'm not sure what distinguishes liberals in this regard from any other group. The majority of people are shallow, ignorant, and closed-minded -- conservative people, liberal people, rich people, poor people, American people, Zulu people . . . you name it. Also, I still don't think you're going to encounter many of the intelligent, reasonable liberals if you're giving off a Boortz vibe.

(BTW, I wasn't angry, dewd. I was just making observations.)

PuroFreak

Ok, well I didn't make the Boortz comment, I don't listen to nut bags like that! I listen to RUSH! hahah Kidding, I don't really listen to political radio much at all.
I'm sorry there was a miscommunication there, I believe that the majority of liberals are liberal because it is the "IN" and "trendy" way to be. I have no respect for someone that chants and screams for Obama, but can't tell you more than one issue, if any, that they agree with him on.
On the other hand, you and I disagree on many issues and I do enjoy debating with you on here and I respect you because you do have a point and you do know what you are talking about. Its not like either of us are "right". Its all a matter of opinion and I don't hold that against anyone. But I do totally agree that the majority of ALL people are shallow, ignorant, and closed-minded.

Luko

Come on people, now, smile on your brother. Everybody get together...try to love one another right now.

kuzi16

its interesting on how the two sides view each other.

i tend to view hard left liberals as more "elitist" than anything else, with the attitude of "the government will spend your money better than you ever possibly could, so they have every right to take it from you and spend it as they see fit."

I tend to view hard right conservatives as being very closed minded with the attitude of "Gays, Atheists, Pagans, vegetarians and hippies have no idea how the world works and need to meet God"

i am an equal opportunity hater. I hate everyone the same.

on that note... I am ever so slightly on the conservative side of Libertarian. I say "the conservative side" because i do live the conservative lifestyle (minus the church thing) and tend to think in terms of how i lead my life.

as far as you guys arguing:
stop it!
seriously, this is a cigar forum. if you two disagree just know not to talk to each other about this topic.
smoke a cigar and cancel out each others votes.

kuzi16

PuroFreak:
I have no respect for someone that chants and screams for Obama, but can't tell you more than one issue, if any, that they agree with him on.

i feel that way about any candidate....

and good thing you guys cleared it up.

i dont wanna open an aged can of whoop ass

... aged from when that joke was funny....

PuroFreak

Whats with all this love your brother crap?? haha I thought this was a forum of guys in here!! Whats next? Yall gonna invite us both to have a cup of tea and discuss our feelings??? haha I was expecting to hear "Gentlemen, come out swinging and lets have a clean fight! DING DING!!"

kuzi16

im just in a very lazy mood. im far to lazy to fight today.

urbino

And I've got a headache, which works as an excuse to get me out of both loving and fighting.

PuroFreak

Well it's my time of the month so.... Oh wait... that only works for my wife... DAMN!

urbino

PuroFreak:
I believe that the majority of liberals are liberal because it is the "IN" and "trendy" way to be.

Again, I don't see how this would distinguish them from conservatives. I live, and have almost always lived, deep in the Bible Belt, where conservatism is generally taken to be synonymous with "Americanism" and the Baby Jesus. Agreeing with it -- however mindlessly -- is the way to get along; rejecting it is decidedly socially disapproved. It's impolite to be liberal (in addition to being equivalent to Karl Marx pinching the Baby Jesus, thereby causing him to spit up on the American flag -- on Independence Day).

There are places where it's trendy to be liberal, but there are at least as many where all the social pressure pushes one to be conservative.

PuroFreak:
Its not like either of us are "right".

True. It's just me.

PuroFreak

The people who are pressured into being conservatives have no spine, the people who are liberals so they look cool and compasionate have no brains.
I grew up in the bible belt too, I am from TX. I am not a religious person, I haven't been to a church service since I was probably 13 or 14. I understand the pressure to "fit in" with the bible thumping crowd, but my political stance isn't because of or in spite of my environment. It is just what makes sense to me and how I believe things would work best. The Hollywood crowd is a prime example of this.

dutyje

PuroFreak:
Whats with all this love your brother crap?? haha I thought this was a forum of guys in here!! Whats next? Yall gonna invite us both to have a cup of tea and discuss our feelings??? haha I was expecting to hear "Gentlemen, come out swinging and lets have a clean fight! DING DING!!"

I'll bring the box of Cammy wrappers

urbino

PuroFreak:
The people who are pressured into being conservatives have no spine, the people who are liberals so they look cool and compasionate have no brains.

Again, I think you're making a distinction where there is none. People who go along just to get along are primarily shallow and lazy, regardless of whether they're going along with conservatism or liberalism. There is no spine vs. brain distinction; in either case, the person is just choosing not to exercise either one.

urbino

dutyje:
I'll bring the box of Cammy wrappers

Just wrappers? What are we supposed to do with them, bind our wounds?

dutyje

urbino:
dutyje:
I'll bring the box of Cammy wrappers
Just wrappers? What are we supposed to do with them, bind our wounds?

Was more in response to this comment:

PuroFreak:
Whats with all this love your brother crap??

and your admission in another thread that you'd smoke anything in a Cammy wrapper

urbino

Did I say that? I meant to say I'd poke anything wrapped in a camisole.

PuroFreak

I feel like there is a distinction between the two, the spineless one may not believe deep down the same things that they express openly in the community, but the brainless one does believe what they say to the public, but the only reason they think that way is because it makes them look cool and helps their image.

urbino

I suppose I would agree, assuming that the following would be equally true:

The people who are pressured into being liberals have no spine, the people who are conservatives so they look tough and self-sufficient have no brains.

PuroFreak

That is very true. Especially the part about spineless liberals! haha Sorry, had to throw that in there. But it is true, the people in Hollywood that cower down to David Geffen are a prime example of that. He has crushed peoples careers simply because they are conservative and have dontated money or supported conservative causes.
I don't see that there are really many people out there trying to be a conservative to "look" tough or self-sufficient. I don't see how that would make you look tough...
But I am very proud to be self sufficient. I do take great pride in the fact that I work and put food on the table for my family. I put clothes on my son's back and a roof over his head. I am very proud that I do that and don't ask the government to do it for me. IF thats what you are calling brainless I totally disagree, thats what I call being a responsible and productive member of society.

urbino

You begin to understand why I had a problem with your original formulation.

PuroFreak:
He has crushed peoples careers simply because they are conservative and have dontated money or supported conservative causes.

I don't follow Hollywood news, so I have no idea how accurate that statement is. Assuming it's 100% true, though, isn't that his right as a successful businessman in a free market?

PuroFreak

Yes, that is his right, I was saying the people that pretend to be lieberals are "spineless" for not standing up for what they truely believe in.

rusirius

I've generally stayed out of these political discussions, but I do have to comment on one thing that frankly, I've never quite understood... Perhaps someone here can shed some light on what I might be missing...

Let me first take a step back and explain my problem with labels... Labels DEFINE things ... definatively...

Here's an example... (Ohh NO! Religion AND Politics)... I'm Zen Buddhist... Buddhists BELIEVE in a creator.. Regardless of rather you think that creator is a being, an entity, even just energy, or whatever, SOMETHING created all of this... I think pretty much everyone can agree with that last statement... Do you have any idea the number of times I've been in a conversation with a Christian or sat in a pew in church listening to a preacher and heard a comment made about the "isms"? Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc...

"ALL a DISBELIEF IN GOD!"

Why is it that someone can see fit to "speak" about the beliefs of another religion without truely knowing ANYTHING about it? Would this not fit Puro's "Obama supporter who doesn't know one issue they agree with him on" description?

Anyway, getting back on track... I can't tell you the number of times I've heard reference to Buddhism being a disbelief in God...

Well... It's not...

I would consider a more accurate description as a "Disbelief In Labels"

You see, when we LABEL something we attempt to define it... If I say "This is a table" I've DEFINED exactly what it is... It's something with 4 or more legs which has a horizontal surface to place things on... It'll never be a turkey dinner, or a good book, or a good cigar... It's a table...

So Buddhists choose not to LABEL the creator of this with ANY word, even "God"... It's impossible for us to EVER "understand" and "define" something that magnificent... Attempting to put a label on it, attempting to DEFINE it and acting as though we're even CAPABLE of understanding it enough TO define it is truely just a disrespect...

So anyway, bringing this full circle back to the political portion... Why is it people are so ready to label themselves, AND others when it comes to politics?

I have people ask me all the time rather I'm democrat or republican... liberal or conservative... right wing or left wing...

Sorry folks, but even when you add varying degrees, I just don't FIT your labels...

In my opinion all they do (the labels) are cause people to make preconcieved judgements about others.

Just as was done here, in this thread...

Imagine the possibilities here for just a moment...

If we threw away all the labels, we could look at what was REALLY important... the issues... We could have tons of various issues and we could find out where each candidate stood on each issue... We wouldn't have to make assumptions about where they stood, we could simply ask... They wouldn't stand on one side simply because that's where their LABEL tells them they should...

I've said it, and I've heard it echoed by others time and time again... I don't think EITHER candidate will make a great president...

IF we got rid of the labels we wouldn't have just "two" choices anymore... We'd have LOTS of choices.... People wouldn't feel like they were "throwing away their vote" by not following one of the two major labels, and at the same time, those who DID throw away their vote by voting for someone they believe in much less would feel much more comforted by placing their vote in the candidate that shared THEIR beliefs...

Imagine, a presidential election that had 15 or 20 candidates running instead of 2... Who would have thunk it???

Seriously though... Why DO people "file in" and align themselves with what the labels define rather than just having their own beliefs?

Why is it if I'm pro-choice I can't head out to the range with my assult rifle and have some fun with the boys?

Why can't I urge on stem cell research and grow Lassy a new liver while urging on our boys to kick some serious ass over in Iraq?

Why can't I go to my best friend's wedding to her lez lover while driving my big ass SUV and urging them to fire up more drills in alaska???

Isn't it sort of ironic that we always talk about thinking outside of the box and standing up for what WE believe in while we all just stuff ourselves inside these neat little boxes marked with a D or an R???

So is it just me? Is it just me that has wild beliefs that span the range from far left to far right??? Do others out there TRUELY just have their beliefs all fall within one nicely LABELED definition??? Or are they really just restricting their beliefs so they don't stray to far outside of their definition???

kuzi16

rusirius:

Why is it if I'm pro-choice I can't head out to the range with my assult rifle and have some fun with the boys?

Why can't I urge on stem cell research and grow Lassy a new liver while urging on our boys to kick some serious ass over in Iraq?

Why can't I go to my best friend's wedding to her lez lover while driving my big ass SUV and urging them to fire up more drills in alaska???

nice set of thoughts there. I havent done my homework on stem cells so i wont try to voice an opinion there but lemme add a personal touch...

i am pro choice (but will never encourage an abortion EVER) and have a rifle and a shotgun.
I went to my brother's wedding where he got married to his husband. We did show up in an SUV, and i do want more oil drillin in alaska.

sorta new concept:
I dont remember who it was that said this but they were running for election a while a go: "if you agree with 80% of what I do then vote for me, If you agree with 100% of what i do then check yourself into a mental institute because nobody agrees with everything all the time"

tying these few concepts together:
I agree with the libertarian party about 80% of the time. that is why i "feel the need" to put a label on at least myself and "fall into" that group.