Israel 'to keep' parts of West Bank

laker1963

Netanyahu pledged to retain parts of the West Bank for Israel 'forever' [AFP]

Israel's prime minister has reaffirmed his country's commitment to retaining parts of the occupied West Bank, undermining US efforts to restart talks aimed at eventually establishing a Palestinian state.

During a tree planting ceremony in a West Bank settlement, Binyamin Netanyahu said that parts of the territory would be kept by Israel under any final peace agreement reached with the Palestinians.

"Our message is clear: We are planting here, we will stay here, we will build here, this place will be an inseparable part of the state of Israel forever," he said.

Netanyahu also pledged that Israel would keep its two biggest settlements in the West Bank, Maale Adumim and Ariel.

The Israeli prime minister's comments came as George Mitchell, the US envoy to the region, visited in an attempt to restart negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel, which were suspended a year ago.

'Interesting ideas'

Netanyahu said after meeting Mitchell on Sunday that he had "heard some interesting ideas for renewing the [peace] process".

"I also expressed my hope that these new ideas will allow for the renewal of the process," he said.

"Certainly if the Palestinians express a similar readiness, then we will find ourselves in a diplomatic process."

But Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an aide to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, said that Netanyahu's statement about retaining areas of the West Bank undermined the US efforts.

"This is an unacceptable act that destroys all the efforts being exerted by senator Mitchell in order to bring the parties back to the negotiating table," The Associated Press news agency quoted him as saying.

Netanyahu has also said this week that Israeli security forces would have to maintain a presence inside any future Palestinian state.

He said on Thursday that Israel would need to operate along the West Bank's eastern border to prevent weapons being smuggled to Palestinian fighters.

Statehood hopes

Netanyahu's remarks are unlikely to be compatible with the Palestinians' demand for a sovereign state within the two entities pre-1967 borders.

Palestinians want to create an independent state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and east Jerusalem with full control of its own borders.

Since Netanyahu took office last year, he has been hesitant to refer to the concept of a Palestinian state and has not outlined how much, if any, of the occupied West Bank he would be willing to give over to Palestinian control.

Palestinian leaders have said they will not resume peace talks until Israel halts all construction of illegal settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem.

Netanyahu has called a limited and temporary halt to the building of new housing units in the West Bank, but the Palestinians have dismissed the move as not going far enough.

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mustluvcigars

laker1963:
I like the anology. but would add that this "sleeping dog" is laying on your front doorstep. But I do agree with your point. *** people are stupid, rather fight forever it seems rather come to SOME kind of agreement and get on with raising your families.

How do you come to an agreement with someone who refuses to recognize your extistance, much less your right to do so?

And you say " what would you do to protect your family", how can you not see this from the Isreali point of view, What are they doing? As I see it and understand recent modern history, How have Jews of the last century done anyhting less that fight for their own survival?

If agreeing and abiding by 1967 borders would end it all, What happened in 1967 that incited this whole mess?

The way you describe and present what is going on over there makes Isreal sound some evil, human rights abusing, oppressive invading occupier of a soviegn peaceful nation.

Vulchor

Isreal will always be fighting for its own survival, because when you take the P.R. people and US good will out of the equation...they are no less fervent in their thoughts or unwilling to compromise as the Palestinians. The "poor Jews" is an image in this conflict they want to have out there to keep the media and public on their side. This is not to say the Palestinians are just in their actions, or that Im being some kind of anti-semite...just a point

I think Lake makes a great point, unaddressed to now---which is what are the Palestinians to do? They do not have the billions backed by the worlds largest superpower and the conventional weapons to wage a war for territory. I suppose their actions could be looked at as cowardly or "not playing fair", but since when has war ever been fair, or the ultimate goal not to "win at any cost"? That mentality is the same one I have read here time and again in regards to the way we handle our war's overseas, and the idea we pus$yfoot around instead of getting to the business of winning.

The other side of their actions is for news, sensationalism, and the psychology of fear. Suicide bombing may not win the war or be understandable to us, but there is a whole psychology and reason for the actions. It may not be for us to understand or accept, but it is not directed at us per se....it is directed at the people on both sides there. And lets not forget, we are talking extrememist and again on this post I think people are grouping all Palestinians into that category which is terribly unfair.

dennisking

To say that the Palestinians have no backing is false. I adressed this in one post and noted many Middle Eastern nations that would like nothing better than to wipe Israel out, thus helping Palestine.

laker1963

dennisking:
To say that the Palestinians have no backing is false. I adressed this in one post and noted many Middle Eastern nations that would like nothing better than to wipe Israel out, thus helping Palestine.

Dennis you are just wrong here. A lot of countries may not like Israel, but what makes you think they would go to war with them.

You guys are actually trying to make this a regional issue now. If the Palestinians can't show up to the fight with a bunch of their big bully buddies from around the region to help them out, then that means Israel is in the right?

Would you prefer to see this, rather than for peace to break out in the region?

I think I am done with this particular discussion. It seems one side has slipped into raising obscure scenario's trying to defend a position.

To Puro I just add -your question about the targets that the Palestinians use in their attacks? YUP they are WRONG. How much more clearly can I say that? How about the Hospitals, and sewage treatment plant that the Isreali's took out during the latest offensive, and continue to disallow supplies to be brought in to have them repaired? Or are you going to say that the Palestinians were using these places as hideouts, so that makes them a fair target? To not allow them to rebuild then, would be to deny them a hideout in any future inccursions, I suppose?

How many innocent civilians would you estimate were killed by the IDF during the most recent military strikes, where the IDF used illegal weapons? Or because they are Palestinians they don't even count as people innocent or otherwise?

fla-gypsy

If the Palestinians have no weapons where do all those rockets that Hezbollah fires all the time come from? To ignore the fact that weapons are flowing into Palestinian occupied areas is disingenuous. The Israeli's are never going to give back the land they captured. The Palestinians will be better off if they assimilate into the culture, become productive, and prosper in it. The Palestinians have been offered deals that could have put substantial areas clearly under their control which they turned down. The areas they have had control over have experienced rampant corruption and horrible mismanagement. Their all or nothing position is going to get them nowhere. This conflict is rooted in the hatred of the Jews by all of their neighbors irregardless of other issues and it will never change.

Luko

laker1963:
dennisking:
To say that the Palestinians have no backing is false. I adressed this in one post and noted many Middle Eastern nations that would like nothing better than to wipe Israel out, thus helping Palestine.
Dennis you are just wrong here. A lot of countries may not like Israel, but what makes you think they would go to war with them.

You guys are actually trying to make this a regional issue now. If the Palestinians can't show up to the fight with a bunch of their big bully buddies from around the region to help them out, then that means Israel is in the right?

Would you prefer to see this, rather than for peace to break out in the region?

I think I am done with this particular discussion. It seems one side has slipped into raising obscure scenario's trying to defend a position.

To Puro I just add -your question about the targets that the Palestinians use in their attacks? YUP they are WRONG. How much more clearly can I say that? How about the Hospitals, and sewage treatment plant that the Isreali's took out during the latest offensive, and continue to disallow supplies to be brought in to have them repaired? Or are you going to say that the Palestinians were using these places as hideouts, so that makes them a fair target? To not allow them to rebuild then, would be to deny them a hideout in any future inccursions, I suppose?

How many innocent civilians would you estimate were killed by the IDF during the most recent military strikes, where the IDF used illegal weapons? Or because they are Palestinians they don't even count as people innocent or otherwise?

You're aware of Syria and Iran, right?

laker1963

Luko:
laker1963:
dennisking:
To say that the Palestinians have no backing is false. I adressed this in one post and noted many Middle Eastern nations that would like nothing better than to wipe Israel out, thus helping Palestine.
Dennis you are just wrong here. A lot of countries may not like Israel, but what makes you think they would go to war with them.

You guys are actually trying to make this a regional issue now. If the Palestinians can't show up to the fight with a bunch of their big bully buddies from around the region to help them out, then that means Israel is in the right?

Would you prefer to see this, rather than for peace to break out in the region?

I think I am done with this particular discussion. It seems one side has slipped into raising obscure scenario's trying to defend a position.

To Puro I just add -your question about the targets that the Palestinians use in their attacks? YUP they are WRONG. How much more clearly can I say that? How about the Hospitals, and sewage treatment plant that the Isreali's took out during the latest offensive, and continue to disallow supplies to be brought in to have them repaired? Or are you going to say that the Palestinians were using these places as hideouts, so that makes them a fair target? To not allow them to rebuild then, would be to deny them a hideout in any future inccursions, I suppose?

How many innocent civilians would you estimate were killed by the IDF during the most recent military strikes, where the IDF used illegal weapons? Or because they are Palestinians they don't even count as people innocent or otherwise?
You're aware of Syria and Iran, right?

Yes. Syria is reportedly negotiating right now with Israel, and Iran is where the US should have focused its attention instead of Iraq in the first place. I know that weapons of sorts do indeed get into the occupied territories, but come on, how do unguided poorly fired home made rockets compare to air raids or tanks, artillery. I state again, I have never said the Palestinians are not guilty of killings Israeli's. I have a hard time believing that some people think that this justifies the killing of Pallestinians by Israeli's of probably a hundred to one in retaliation, and then also think it is no problem that the Israeli's force living conditions on ALL Palestinians, not just the ones fighting Israel, that a dog should not be living in. I am sorry, but that will never be OK with me. I know it is to some here, and that is their opinion. That is what this thread was all about, to create discussion. It seems to be working well:)

Also, why do some people keep reading my post and instead of answering any of the questions I ask, they just ask more questions of me. Is this to be a one way discussion, with me to be on the defensive all the time? I think it is reasonable to expect some answers in return.

kuzi16

Proxy Power: Understanding Iran's Use of Terrorism

laker1963

kuzi16:
Proxy Power: Understanding Iran's Use of Terrorism

You had a point?

I guess by this I mean, are you saying this is what you see as justification for the way the Palestinians are dealt with in the occupied territories?

fla-gypsy

Laker you made up your mind long ago. Why would we waste our breath answering irrelevant questions that will not change anything. Your questions are so skewed in one direction we cannot justify them as legit by answering. I have always held the opinion that the Israeli's have shown great restraint in dealing with the Palestinians, much more than the other side would ever show if they take the boot from their neck.

dennisking

When the dead horse continues to be beaten, it infuriates me. I've seriously come to the point in this discussion when I deserve to be irrational. The Palestinians are angry because they are stuck in the stone ages. It's the same reason the Iraqi's, Afghanis, and Iranians are pissed at us all the time. They are a bunch of poorly educated sheep herders and opium addicts that can't let stuff go and are unwilling to change whatsoever. F U C K them.
I told you guys I tried to be rational but seriously, I mean really, you think that they have any rights whatsoever to do the crap they do. Sorry, if someone invaded my land and took it from me I wouldn't strap a bomb to my kid, or anyone elses and send them into a busy shopping center to take out innocent lives. It's barbaric, they are barbarians, and they deserve the stone ages they live in.

Luko

dennisking:
When the dead horse continues to be beaten, it infuriates me. I've seriously come to the point in this discussion when I deserve to be irrational. The Palestinians are angry because they are stuck in the stone ages. It's the same reason the Iraqi's, Afghanis, and Iranians are pissed at us all the time. They are a bunch of poorly educated sheep herders and opium addicts that can't let stuff go and are unwilling to change whatsoever. F U C K them.
I told you guys I tried to be rational but seriously, I mean really, you think that they have any rights whatsoever to do the crap they do. Sorry, if someone invaded my land and took it from me I wouldn't strap a bomb to my kid, or anyone elses and send them into a busy shopping center to take out innocent lives. It's barbaric, they are barbarians, and they deserve the stone ages they live in.

Hmmm, I like the cut of your jib.

laker1963

fla-gypsy:
Laker you made up your mind long ago. Why would we waste our breath answering irrelevant questions that will not change anything. Your questions are so skewed in one direction we cannot justify them as legit by answering. I have always held the opinion that the Israeli's have shown great restraint in dealing with the Palestinians, much more than the other side would ever show if they take the boot from their neck.

Sure. Deflect, but never answer. Instead make ME the reason you don't. Whatever.I am done with this silliness. People, ANY people always deserve to live. You guys keep argueing as tho EVERY Palestinian is a TERRORIST!!! Children can NOT be terrorist, but you deflect. Hundreds of thousands or more people are NOT terrorist, but it is ME who has already made up my mind. You don't answer because you CAN NOT justify it. So you deflect and refuse to answer my hard question, preffering instead to now turn this into something about ME !! TYPICAL

laker1963

dennisking:
When the dead horse continues to be beaten, it infuriates me. I've seriously come to the point in this discussion when I deserve to be irrational. The Palestinians are angry because they are stuck in the stone ages. It's the same reason the Iraqi's, Afghanis, and Iranians are pissed at us all the time. They are a bunch of poorly educated sheep herders and opium addicts that can't let stuff go and are unwilling to change whatsoever. F U C K them.
I told you guys I tried to be rational but seriously, I mean really, you think that they have any rights whatsoever to do the crap they do. Sorry, if someone invaded my land and took it from me I wouldn't strap a bomb to my kid, or anyone elses and send them into a busy shopping center to take out innocent lives. It's barbaric, they are barbarians, and they deserve the stone ages they live in.

There you go. That could be your inaugeration speech for club president.

dennisking

laker1963:
dennisking:
When the dead horse continues to be beaten, it infuriates me. I've seriously come to the point in this discussion when I deserve to be irrational. The Palestinians are angry because they are stuck in the stone ages. It's the same reason the Iraqi's, Afghanis, and Iranians are pissed at us all the time. They are a bunch of poorly educated sheep herders and opium addicts that can't let stuff go and are unwilling to change whatsoever. F U C K them.
I told you guys I tried to be rational but seriously, I mean really, you think that they have any rights whatsoever to do the crap they do. Sorry, if someone invaded my land and took it from me I wouldn't strap a bomb to my kid, or anyone elses and send them into a busy shopping center to take out innocent lives. It's barbaric, they are barbarians, and they deserve the stone ages they live in.
There you go. That could be your inaugeration speech for club president.

I was saving it for the state of the dis-union speech, but I digress. I know you want fairness for all and I know that it's tought to stick to your guns and for that I respect you, for what it may or may not be worth. It's just very hard for me to find a warm spot in my heart when I see all the things that are done by an angry people against another angry people. They deserve each other and they deserve what they get. The inevitable will happen. They will war, they will fight, and they will continue to drag us into this.

laker1963

LOL, state of dis-union... I like that lol

I have to agree that it seems they will never come to be able to live together. History, once again teaches people nothing. Shame.

Vulchor

I hadnt been on since yesterday, and was hoping my post and Laker's maybe would open a dialogue of conversation----yet, it continued to be a one sided d@mnation of the Palestinians and grouping all of them as extremists. It sure is a bad time to be a law adbiding and self respecting Muslim now a days...seems like another episode of the Crusads or something such the like.

As far as them never coming together, the words of Cornelius Vanderbilt (one of the worlds largest pr!cks) come to mind... "The masses, are @sses".

kuzi16

laker1963:
kuzi16:
Proxy Power: Understanding Iran's Use of Terrorism
You had a point?

I guess by this I mean, are you saying this is what you see as justification for the way the Palestinians are dealt with in the occupied territories?

nah, just an interesting read that is almost on topic.